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Thread: Let's put Cockerpunk on the spot

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Oh my goodness, civility ?

    Relax sparky.
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  2. #72
    Hebrews 13:8 going_home's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil View Post
    Relax sparky.
    I thought you were ill acting civil to Gordon.....


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  3. #73
    I was doing a wiki evening the other night after some everything is terrible viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExED_i3k0iQ

    has me thinking a lot about dada and the internet, and the choice that i make in life and why i make them. and this gun, and the point of this gun and its use to me is very much dadaist in nature. as i detailed in previous threads, my adoption of pump guns in the early 2000s, when literally no one else had one or herd of one, was largely a rejection of the hierarchy of gun tech that was being adopted. later, as that hierarchy was pushed into pump guns, i adopted this blowback base model. yes, its somewhat tongue in cheek to make the claims and use the gun, but it also serves the point that all of this was about for me ... the notion that this gun hierarchy and the arms race, and the cliques on-line that form around guns are stupid, and should be abolished.

    this continues in my life even after paintball has moved to a 2 or 3 times a year activity for me. my un-ironic love of the white miata is another example of this dadaist philosophy. like the blowback, its a car cool to no one. miata bros and stance kids think its dumb. power guys think its dumb. collectors think its dumb. AWD guys think it dumb. brodozer guys think its dumb. even though it actually is a true "no fucks given car" even the no fucks given car bros don't like it. everyone in the world thinks its useless and dumb, because its a stock, junky, miata. but it too is a rejection of the hierarchy of cars, because it isn't cool on anyone's scale. yes, it is somewhat tongue in cheek to go about proclaiming the miata as the best car for anything and everything, but its also not, because its fucking fantastic to drive all year, doing everything one would do with a car (the guys at the dump think its pretty funny to empty bags of yard waste out of it). it makes a mockery of the hierarchy, it points to the absurdity of hierarchy.

    as a result, the hierarchy rejects it even harder, like the lowly blow-back. even the folks "in the know" reject the azodin koas blowback.

    I think i enjoy this dadaist approach to life because its a response to my own rationalism. i am as technical of a guy as you'd ever meet, and can understand, follow and do technical, hyper-rational decision making like no one's business. what annoys me most, is when folks try to rationalize the irrational. and thus my response to folks trying to rationalize the irrational, is dada ... is making fun of the supposed hierarchy there rationality has tried to impart on what is ultimately an irrational decision matrix. absurdism, irrationality, and rejection of that is my response to that. once we are no longer making decisions based on rational thought, then anything goes, any justification is equal. and when folks then try to re-rationalize an irrational decision, pointing that out to them with absurdism is what i choose to do.

    i think this bend towards WW1 dadaism is very much a millennial/internet generational thing. its ironic, but also unironic. its the lulz. its absurdism to point out absurdity. its pissing back into an ocean of piss. its absurdism to point out the absurdity of hierarchy.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 04-19-2018 at 10:21 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #74
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    This was an interesting tour of your mental process. Allow me some criticism.

    You take an essentially poststructuralist stance that value judgements (I think this is a less loaded term than hierarchy) are at a minimum only relative and subjective, and are therefore meaningless when applied to the level of the individual. Thus you can claim a Miata is the best car "for you" validly because you are defining it tautologically as such.

    If this construction is valid then it's a hop skip and jump to demolish all comparative structures that aren't anchored to some objective metric. Obviously, no one should care about this in regards to hobbies. But, I tend to think the thought process is not so compartmentalized.

    I am somewhat concerned that this attitude extends across a great deal of our generation. Political, social, and economic structures, as they exist currently, are obviously unchained from quantifiable, rational roots. Pure rejection of these structures, as you seem to endorse, is obviously a trend, and it's a nonzero factor in what gave us Trump (see: r/the Donald).

    It's possible that this rejection is a necessary violent accelerant towards meaningful change, more effectively than the somewhat inertial "occupy wall street" movement of a decade ago. There's such a large cohort of millennials (rightfully) disillusioned by our established systems that I wonder whether we won't get something very strange. Post recession Japan combined with the internet has produced hikkomori, and we've got the opiate epidemic.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    This was an interesting tour of your mental process. Allow me some criticism.

    You take an essentially poststructuralist stance that value judgements (I think this is a less loaded term than hierarchy) are at a minimum only relative and subjective, and are therefore meaningless when applied to the level of the individual. Thus you can claim a Miata is the best car "for you" validly because you are defining it tautologically as such.

    If this construction is valid then it's a hop skip and jump to demolish all comparative structures that aren't anchored to some objective metric. Obviously, no one should care about this in regards to hobbies. But, I tend to think the thought process is not so compartmentalized.

    I am somewhat concerned that this attitude extends across a great deal of our generation. Political, social, and economic structures, as they exist currently, are obviously unchained from quantifiable, rational roots. Pure rejection of these structures, as you seem to endorse, is obviously a trend, and it's a nonzero factor in what gave us Trump (see: r/the Donald).

    It's possible that this rejection is a necessary violent accelerant towards meaningful change, more effectively than the somewhat inertial "occupy wall street" movement of a decade ago. There's such a large cohort of millennials (rightfully) disillusioned by our established systems that I wonder whether we won't get something very strange. Post recession Japan combined with the internet has produced hikkomori, and we've got the opiate epidemic.
    r/donald is not due to millennial dadaism ... its due to white boomer privileged than even in the rubble, they will still be the top of the pile. its insulation from the effects of there own emotions on others quality of life that gives you trumpism. they don't understand that there emotions have real world effects, on actual human being's lives because they have been so insulated from having to take responsibility for those emotions, because of there economic and social position. they don't truly know what "burning it all down" means, because they have never ever been vulnerable to it. someone else has always paid the price for there anger, because being a white, dude, boomer was like being born on thrid and a half base.

    the greatest generation knew about war, they knew about economic meltdowns, they experienced it. and they managed the world accordingly, and did a great job of it for the most part. but the boomers, they grew up in insulation. and starting in the 1980s, as the boomers became the largest economic and political block in the country, the lessons, hard learned, of the world wars, and the depression were lost. humans became worth there economic output only, world politics became a game seemingly without consequences (except the consequences are VERY real for everyone else) .... and thats how the boomers have run the world. and handed us shit and told us we are entitled to want anything more.

    and like the imperialism and its political entanglements the greatest generation rebelled against with dada, we too are rebelling against the insanity of boomers world.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #76
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    My thesis is basically that wholesale rejection of current systems can lead to violent destabilization. you've probably observed this on every message board you've ever posted on :P

    I think you can apply this to the WWI/WWII era. The Greatest Generation (and boomers after them) largely benefited from the devastation of Europe, leaving America as the sole economic superpower. It took true catastrophe to upend imperialism.

    Dada leads to a different kind of liberalism, one that's explicitly NOT progressive (which suggests a smooth continuum of continuous improvement, as someone like Obama embodies). The historical problem with non-progressive leftism is that it's had a tendency to tip over into authoritarian communism, which hasn't been a good look. I realize that activism can seem depressingly naive and ineffectual, but it might be preferable to dada when it comes to politics.
    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    My thesis is basically that wholesale rejection of current systems can lead to violent destabilization. you've probably observed this on every message board you've ever posted on :P

    I think you can apply this to the WWI/WWII era. The Greatest Generation (and boomers after them) largely benefited from the devastation of Europe, leaving America as the sole economic superpower. It took true catastrophe to upend imperialism.

    Dada leads to a different kind of liberalism, one that's explicitly NOT progressive (which suggests a smooth continuum of continuous improvement, as someone like Obama embodies). The historical problem with non-progressive leftism is that it's had a tendency to tip over into authoritarian communism, which hasn't been a good look. I realize that activism can seem depressingly naive and ineffectual, but it might be preferable to dada when it comes to politics.
    except that authoritarian and dada cannot coexist. they are fundamentally antithetical. dada is the rejection of anything authoritarian. dada as a political ideology, is anarchy. dada is anti-political

    i think dada is far more a coping mechanism for us, not an actual rejection of organized solutions to our problems. even the dadaists never said it was a good idea as a political ideology, they did it as a show of how absurd imperialism was. this is why millennial are doing it, and attracted to it. to show how absurd the hyper-crony-capitalist boomer world really is.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 04-19-2018 at 05:49 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  8. #78
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    I think you're doing some significant conflation of terms. Dada as a movement had clear political goals, and they were aligned with the far left.

    We can relate the version of absurdism to both poststructuralism and nihilism, depending on if you're taking a more ontological or philosophical bent.

    The point is simply that it's relatively easy to recognize and reject the absurd. If this is going to be a dominant school of thought for disenfranchised young people, then we've got interesting times ahead. I note that you've got a lot of righteous indignation aimed at conservatives (I'm a big Bill Maher fan) but at some point "Republicans are evil, Democrats are ineffectual" simplifies into "the system is broken". It's a really short conceptual distance from there to "the system is unfixable", and that's the notion that I think is dangerous, and leads to upheaval.

    I actually have defended my own actions as an American capitalist as being in the interest of accelerationism - the more I leverage globalism and invest in evil corporations, the more I expose how broken the system is, and ultimately I am helping foster revolution for the proletariat!

    I apologize for taking this so far afield, because I think your points with regard to paintball guns and cars are really good ones - I have dissuaded people from buying my own upgrades when they use qualifiers like "I'll order when I get paid Friday" - I tell them to buy paint instead. I'm a terrible example in the cars subexample, having 2 pretty cool "fully built" cars that do little more than backroad commuting.
    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    I think you're doing some significant conflation of terms. Dada as a movement had clear political goals, and they were aligned with the far left.

    We can relate the version of absurdism to both poststructuralism and nihilism, depending on if you're taking a more ontological or philosophical bent.

    The point is simply that it's relatively easy to recognize and reject the absurd. If this is going to be a dominant school of thought for disenfranchised young people, then we've got interesting times ahead. I note that you've got a lot of righteous indignation aimed at conservatives (I'm a big Bill Maher fan) but at some point "Republicans are evil, Democrats are ineffectual" simplifies into "the system is broken". It's a really short conceptual distance from there to "the system is unfixable", and that's the notion that I think is dangerous, and leads to upheaval.

    I actually have defended my own actions as an American capitalist as being in the interest of accelerationism - the more I leverage globalism and invest in evil corporations, the more I expose how broken the system is, and ultimately I am helping foster revolution for the proletariat!

    I apologize for taking this so far afield, because I think your points with regard to paintball guns and cars are really good ones - I have dissuaded people from buying my own upgrades when they use qualifiers like "I'll order when I get paid Friday" - I tell them to buy paint instead. I'm a terrible example in the cars subexample, having 2 pretty cool "fully built" cars that do little more than backroad commuting.
    i think you are taking the notion of pointing out insanity, as a full political ideology and it just isn't that. just because the left is generally anti-war and the right is more hawkish doesn't mean that dada leads to authoritarian communism. if there is conflation and overextention of terms going on here, its that link.

    also can we talk about just how funny EIT's jerry maguire pyramid is? http://jerrymaguirepyramid.com/
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #80
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    Do you ever sit down and actually consider how very fortunate you are?

    Does anyone actually believe that "burning it all down" will result in anything different or better than what you have now, or some version of something that doesn't already exist in the hundreds of different countries around the world?

    I'm a very un-political person. I just can't get my head around why there is such a hatred by followers of opposing political sides and why some groups seem bent on supposed radical change. I literally think it is because people have too much time on their hands. I get the whole grass is greener thing, but which fence is everyone looking over and seeing something better than what they already have?

    Also, t's a fine line between IDGAF and IAGQALOFAIADTJTGN (I Actually Give Quite A Lot Of Fucks And I Am Doing This Just To Get Noticed). If you truly DGAF you wouldn't post about it everywhere or care what any other group did or didn't think about your life choices.
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