What needs to happen to speedball to keep it relevant?

[vijil]

Steve the idea is that a player has options - rather than being forced into immediate expense it becomes possible to complete at a high level on a very low budget. At the same time, there's a natural optional progression into full noise/expense paintball. All within one format and even one division. Now of course that comes down in part to how teams want to arrange their finance spread, but at least the option is there.

[PBSteve]

Steve the idea is that a player has options - rather than being forced into immediate expense it becomes possible to complete at a high level on a very low budget.

That option already exists. I honestly believe you can compete at a high level in a tournament with a lot of very affordable markers.

http://www.actionvillage.com/collect...l-gun-navy-tan

IMO it's the cost of the tournaments themselves which are the deterring factor rather than the gear. Gear is an investment in the sense that you pay once and can use it repeatedly, but tournament costs are an incredibly expensive way to spend a weekend or whatnot.

[vijil]

I'm taking primarily about paint cost, not gear cost.

Ok how about this: rather than forcing marker types, have per player ammo and load caps. Eg two players full noise or something, two with 200 rnd limits and 30rnd per load, plus one with a ten or twenty round per load limit and 100 round carry.

Markers would work themselves out.

[PBSteve]

Seems to me something along the lines of "10 140rnd pods per team, you figure out how to use it" would be both easier to enforce and more interesting for the players.

[Lurker27]

No one is going to want to be the dude with 30.

I think you're somewhat focusing on the intermediate players, which is generally the population of this forum. I'd argue that from an industry health standpoint, we need tobe concerned with

A. Influx and retention of new players. Ensuring a good experience for everyone that comes to a speedball field for rec play. That means even teams, good equipment, and a chance to learn the principles they need to succeed and have fun.

B. A successful and visible pro series to feed back in to #1. This means the pro game NEEDS to be, if not telegenic, youtubegenic. If it can't be done in the current format, the format kind of needs to change, but the crucial thing is comprehensibility.

The simple change I would propose is this: No flag, and points are awarded based on time remaining in the game. No points are awarded for games ending with players from both teams alive. Teams play 4 games (quarters) with a set time limit. This has a couple effects:

1. It incentives aggression, which is always good. It prevents stalling. More excitement, more adrenalin.
2. Games are of a known time. Scheduling is easier. Less paint is shot simply because there's less time.
3. Teams assume roles of "offense" and "defense" dynamically, and in a way that's easy to understand.
4. Hero plays like run-throughs have a much higher impact, because a game can swing from a 4 point win to a 4 point loss extremely quickly. In a way analogous to football, a team that's winning by total points in the match AND up on bodies might choose to try to stall a match out. I think that there's a rih and intuitive strategy base to be had here.

Crucially, there's no stupid added shit, no offense. Fields could start playing this way tomorrow with nothing more than a ref and a timer.

I call it speedball. (See what I did there? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W8vVYzHtg8#t=9m19s)

[cockerpunk]

ryan, good ideas, to play up the "offense" and "defense" roles ... how about asymmetric field? with defense having the advantage.

defense your hit your out. offense, you are hit, you can respawn after a fixed amount of time. offense scores when they eliminate all the defenders. and once they do that, the teams switch roles. like a turnover. probably need a paint limit for defense. say, 8 pods each or something. no limit on offense. then if the offense ends it in X minutes, they get the max points, otherwise a nice linear taper down to 2 or 3 X minutes, at which the defense has won, and there offence gets to come out.

rof is fundamentally a defensive weapon. but with a fixed amount of paint, and trying to hold them off for a long period of time .... simply shooting a rope the entire "drive" is not feasible.

[vijil]

Seems to me something along the lines of "10 140rnd pods per team, you figure out how to use it" would be both easier to enforce and more interesting for the players.

- But doesn't give the same industry, cross-discipline and player progression benefits. Enforcement load is certainly a thing (I'd say minor) - just gotta do the math about whether the tradeoff is worth it. I'm making the case that it is, but playtesting would be the only way to know for sure.

The Offense Defense with one side respawning and the other not - we actually run in the woods at our field. Offense get unlimited instant respawn, defense are hit = out. Time it, swap, repeat as cockerpunk says (timing respawns is a pain that's generally not worth the effort for us). Works very well in the woods and can only assume it would work on supair. Elimination to decide first possession? Might add this to the blog.

A format we have here in NZ is a hybrid woods/speed where both sides get to respawn, but each player starts the game with a tennis ball they must put in a barrel in the middle of the field alive. First team to get rid of all their balls wins. It works in terms of focal point and fun factor, but doesn't encourage gamebreaking moves. Some great games though.

[Nobody]

I will say this, everyone wants to cap the paint used, but not how its delivered. Why not an actual mech league? Yes, some asshole with a pneumag can ruin things, but the basis of getting those players to play speedball is to start them early. It can be a little discerning when you see someone walk in front of you carrying 3 cases of paint, when you scrapped together money for half a case. But, having games where the guns are classified, like unmodified blowbacks, modded blowbacks or pneumatic divisions will show that a walk on doesn't need to dump.money into an electro just to play. The firing ability will natural curtail itself, so you don't have to limit paint(as that's how fields still make their money), and the movement comes back. Pump play was supposed to do this but the learning curve of pump tourney is too much, IMO.

As the cigarette smoking adage is, "hook them young", is more towards the style of play, not limiting the fun they can have with whatever they are capable of using. Personally i would love to see some of the games oldtimers come out with their prized cockers or mags and just have fun, playing the style that they loved. There is no more roar of 10 guns or so laying down 12+ bps for the opening break.

Its also easy to control since you can't dump paint in a BT4 like you can in a timmy, or any electro. And anyone can tell the difference between a mechanical gun and an electro. I don't think anyone here doesn't like to shoot paint. But its a harder learning curve of playing limited paint(which i used to play hopperball) than putting the breaks on the gun itself. Remember, John Rice pushed the Angel because it was easier for the every-player to shoot as fast as a tourney player.

[vijil]

Wouldn't it work just as well to have a low bps cap - say 8?

I guess then you lose the nostalgia crowd...

[YOUNGSTOWN]

Wouldn't it work just as well to have a low bps cap - say 8?

I guess then you lose the nostalgia crowd...

Using a 9v rev ( unmodified ) could achieve this and not exclude those with a electronic marker...on the other hand it would also not discourage those looking to use mech markers...