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Thread: What needs to happen to speedball to keep it relevant?

  1. #61
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    Define "relevant."

    I presume you mean as the premiere format for competition. Pump, magfed, mechanical only, hopper ball, ctf, hold and defend, etc are all relevant--they're just not the premiere national level format. "Relevant," to me, means fun. Paintball, no matter the format, is fun for me.

    I think, in general, paintball's problem is the 3 to 5 year life cycle of players. People view it as the "zipline" experience. They do it a couple of times and then it's done on their bucket list. The turnover rate between the hard core and the recreational crowd seems to be higher than other sports.

    Speedball is still relevant. However, i question whether it can:

    1. Remain affordable for the majority of people who wish to play nationally and more than one event.

    2. Be promoted as a spectator sport.


    The first can be solved through limiting fire rates or the total amount of paint a team can shoot per match (no more 14 pods per person ala MAO). I don't play speedball competitions for that reason. I just can't afford it (wife, kids, mortgage, etc). I play once or twice a month year round at a recball field i help run with my friends. $20 to $40 a month and i get to have fun with my friends. Let's not even start on the time if you want to be competitive at any level. I realize this is true of any sport, but if the prizes don't pay for the work going into it......

    The second will be far more difficult. Speedball is fine to play. It fails miserably at the test of "will the girlfriend sit and watch its biggest event of the year if i put out lots of beer, nachos, and invite over my mates." Football, hockey, etc all pass that test in general. The uninitiated can at least follow the basics of the game, enjoy each other's company, and call it a night. Paintball has no single focal point making it difficult to follow the action for the uninitiated, 1/2 the action never gets captured on film, you can't see the rounds (i still question whether bright neon rounds will solve this)....it just doesn't translate well. Fun to play--cruddy to watch.

    Let's not even get started how the general public views paintball as a teenager past time. Though, i personally find people covered in paint, drunk at the back of a tailgate just as childish but i digress.

    VFTDB has had some good discussions on this in the comment sections.


    Sidenote: the Canadian "feline" is Tomcat Cunningham. He's a bit off his rocker, but I've never heard any reason as to why he'd be "paintball bitter." He covers a great number of competitions, scenarios, etc. He was featured on the first season of the Paintball Show. I believe PumpScout was always referencing Tyger.

  2. #62
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    I think there probably are solutions or at least partial solutions (which can be enough) to most of the issues you mention.

    Let's put together our dream leagues just for lols. Here's my drastic, ridiculous ideas:

    1: Local qualifying leading to one major nationals.

    2: Reworked basic game format. Some kind of objective. Touchdown lines, offense and defense, whatever - a format that gives something close to a focal point being the goal. Preferably not complex. Ideas here. Have tried some of those ideas. Mostly they work, would need tweaks.

    3: Mixed markers. Meaning: of a five man team, only two are allowed hoppers+electro. The rest max out at 30 round magazine fed, and maybe even one with just a pistol. 10bps limit but no firing mode restrictions for all. Why? It massively decreases paint usage and cost for most players, allows other players to play full noise and spend $$ which keeps the adrenalin up, makes reloading a bigger tactical issue, encourages freer movement, sells more guns which is good for the industry (most players will want all three types, there's an inbuilt natural progression here) and most importantly helps bridge the gap between the types of paintball. The tech would filter everywhere. Of course it brings an admin load, but I'm making the case that it'd be worth it

    4: Respawns - save elimination for power plays and tiebreakers. Why: More game time per player, including those who get shot a lot. More relevance to gaming. More commonality between the types of paintball.
    Last edited by vijil; 10-22-2014 at 01:11 AM.
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  3. #63
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    The problem with mixed markers is that there is really very little advantage to anything but the full electro setup.

    I'd actually prefer a game fairly close to the 3-7 on 3-7 elimination format, with a player tracking system based on ELO. I can't tell you how much more I'd play if i knew I could show up as a random dude without a team, and get dropped into an even speedball game with people of reasonably comparable skill. All modern games that I'm aware of have some sort of matchmaking system in place. If you're serious at all about field safety and competition, an app for this would be so easy to make. It also would allow for self organization to take place - players would kno if they should consider entering tournaments, could be paired with "suggested teammates" based on combined win %, etc." The point is to get people playing more speedball by ensuring good games, and the side benefit is giving them really useful outcomes.

  4. #64
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    Like some sort of check in system but with non-idiotic functionality

    http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4436953

  5. #65
    CAD Monkey skibbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    Like some sort of check in system but with non-idiotic functionality

    http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4436953
    I like the concept of that combined with APPA type ranking/stats. I think that combined with tracking would be interesting to watch.

  6. #66
    Insider Lumberjack's Avatar
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    I second that Ryan.

    I like the tournaments they mix players up on teams. It keeps things interesting.

  7. #67
    need a culture shift if you are going to make an APPA check in system work.

    in other sports, people voluntarily rank themselves, and they are proud to sing up in higher brackets. my mom is a pretty high level equestrian, and all ranking in that sport is voluntary, and people literally openly mock anyone sandbagging. in paintball, we have a sand bagging culture where everyone competes to stay as low as possible for as long as possible. i think its mostly based on old teenage insecurity myself, but thats just one engineers opinion.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  8. #68
    CAD Monkey skibbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    need a culture shift if you are going to make an APPA check in system work.

    in other sports, people voluntarily rank themselves, and they are proud to sing up in higher brackets. my mom is a pretty high level equestrian, and all ranking in that sport is voluntary, and people literally openly mock anyone sandbagging. in paintball, we have a sand bagging culture where everyone competes to stay as low as possible for as long as possible. i think its mostly based on old teenage insecurity myself, but thats just one engineers opinion.
    I agree with you. Mandatory sign up for an APPA type program for every tournament series could help to prevent that. Otherwise stricter penalties if caught sandbagging could help curtail the behavior as well, since people are want to lie to win.

  9. #69
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    You're damn right about that, Gordon. I think that doesn't necessarily suggest paintball players are inherently dishonest, just that they're inherently profit motivated and ego driven. To some level of abstraction, the fundamental problem is that the inherent cost of playing a tournament is so very high, and the prizes relatively insignificant. In most other sports at the amateur level, there's a degree of self organization, and then balancing - I'd suggest the ideal format is a league structure where teams play teams adjacent in the standings, and free agent spots are filling according to ranking. Since all your official speedball activities would be ranked


    The key is drawing the continuum from casual -> competitive, NOT from TERRIBLE -> GREAT. This strikes at the heart of the lessons arguments, as well, for players to rank up, they made need resources, ranging from better equipment to advice to some 1 on 1 sessions. Shoot, give new players a helmet cam and an earpiece and have someone remotely "ride along" and give advice.

    There is so much that technology can do to enhance the ecosystem of the sport of speedball. Ultimately it's going to take a concerted effort from people who really care to get anything done.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    You're damn right about that, Gordon. I think that doesn't necessarily suggest paintball players are inherently dishonest, just that they're inherently profit motivated and ego driven. To some level of abstraction, the fundamental problem is that the inherent cost of playing a tournament is so very high, and the prizes relatively insignificant. In most other sports at the amateur level, there's a degree of self organization, and then balancing - I'd suggest the ideal format is a league structure where teams play teams adjacent in the standings, and free agent spots are filling according to ranking. Since all your official speedball activities would be ranked


    The key is drawing the continuum from casual -> competitive, NOT from TERRIBLE -> GREAT. This strikes at the heart of the lessons arguments, as well, for players to rank up, they made need resources, ranging from better equipment to advice to some 1 on 1 sessions. Shoot, give new players a helmet cam and an earpiece and have someone remotely "ride along" and give advice.

    There is so much that technology can do to enhance the ecosystem of the sport of speedball. Ultimately it's going to take a concerted effort from people who really care to get anything done.
    its a different kind of ego driven. because in equestrians, its ego driven. merely competing at a higher level is seen as better than winning while sand bagging. thats simply the culture. similar in autocross actually. very rarily is the driver in the stripped, non street legal evo with 500+ hp and 12 inch slicks. its the guy raw timing the shit out of him in a stock class 1997 miata that is respected.

    paintball players egos tend to be about wins and losses though, totally regardless of the skill of the competition. they'd rather kick the crap out of some rookies, than challenge themselves and see who comes out on top. there ego is based on winning, not on competition. very big difference.

    again, this is merely the musings of an engineer attempting to explain the human condition. that is always shaky ground.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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