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Thread: RTR Gargoyle

  1. #1

    RTR Gargoyle

    If you haven't seen it, Rodney's trying to crowdfund the 2.0 Gargoyle:

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/g...ii-the-warthog

    Absolutely insane Nelson pumps, his attention to the little things on the originals is fantastic.

  2. #2
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    Love my RTR trigger group... now I just need to finish hanging stuff off it to make a functional marker...
    Draws houses, doesn't own markers that aren't single tube designs, unapologetic AGD zealot.

  3. #3
    Adobe Evangelist emisnug's Avatar
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    Are these any good? I played a game with a Gargoyle (after a conversation of "what's that?") and there were a couple issues, but felt golden when it worked.

  4. #4
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Wait a second, I must be missing something here.

    He's asking for $375k to build 500 guns? $750 per gun up front, for a gun without a board or solenoid valve?
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  5. #5
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    He's asking for $375k to build 500 guns? $750 per gun up front, for a gun without a board or solenoid valve?
    Yep, that looks it. Full retail, not cost, no wholesale. His cost should be about $250 per gun based on a $750 retail (using the 1 to 3 ratio), so he would only need 1/3rd of that to get 500 guns made. Even at 50% that would be $185K or so.

    Huh. That means he does hope to make $180k on the project for pocket cash. Not bad for a pump... Should have made it a 3-6 month kickstarter though.
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
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  6. #6
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Seems pretty ambitious to shoot for 500 units.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  7. #7
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    Seems pretty ambitious to shoot for 500 units.
    I agree! Though that is minimum order at a lot of shops. I had one shop tell me they are based on 1 day minimum. If they can do 100 parts in 8 hours, that is the minimum. If they do 1000 parts, that is the minimum.

    I think though he made the mistake of trying to fully fund 500 units. If he had tried to fund 100-200 units, or even just COST for 500 units then he could reach his goal sooner and far more likely. Say aim for $100k, and lose some $ if the order is only 300 units - or go to a bank for the rest. He is up to $25k all ready.

    If he fully sold 100 guns that is $70K to work with. Even 150 guns fully sold would nearly cover his cost to make nearing on 500, and a bank would look at that and see 350 units at $750 each in stock, or over $250k in retail ($200k wholesale) with $100k paid upfront and they would jump at it.

    I suspect he will not reach his goal. 200 guns, he could make it easy. 500 is a bit of a stretch for a $700 pump.

    Lots of brilliant in that gun though. Hope it floats!
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design
    www.j4paintball.com

  8. #8
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    He is up to $25k all ready.
    I'd be really surprised if the indiegogo campaign does much more than double that from here out.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  9. #9
    With him still being 10% of his end goal I would assume to make it to the total goal he better roll out one hell of a media strategy with a huge social media campaign to not waste the next 33 days hoping people find and then hand over a huge amount of cash.
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  10. #10
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    Hello everyone. This is Rodney from RTR. I appreciate people taking the time to post in numerous forums. Unfortunetly I cannot watch and answer in all of them so I will answer some of this now and would kindly refer you to the threads either on MCB or PBnation for much more detail.

    http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/r...on-2-a-79.html

    http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4755233&page=4

    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Yep, that looks it. Full retail, not cost, no wholesale. His cost should be about $250 per gun based on a $750 retail (using the 1 to 3 ratio), so he would only need 1/3rd of that to get 500 guns made. Even at 50% that would be $185K or so.
    Huh. That means he does hope to make $180k on the project for pocket cash. Not bad for a pump... Should have made it a 3-6 month kickstarter though.
    Nothing could be further from the truth about the cost per gun or my intended income from this project. I have been doing this for a long long time and I can assure you that income is not my priority. Never has been. The cost that you see is not full retail either. These markers are not cheaply made nor are the carbon copies of previous designs. It's a Nelson based marker and they may look the same, but there are not. And my cost is more than double than your projected cost per marker at this time. It may not be believable, but if it weren't true I would have had these made a long time ago.
    Kickstarter, although it would indeed have been a great option to use, was not an option as they would not allow this on their site.
    The 40 day run was dictated by statistics of success provided directly from Indie and Kickstarter.
    If you decide to research me, you would hopefully see some differences in your current thinking about my intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    I think though he made the mistake of trying to fully fund 500 units. If he had tried to fund 100-200 units, or even just COST for 500 units then he could reach his goal sooner and far more likely. Say aim for $100k, and lose some $ if the order is only 300 units - or go to a bank for the rest. He is up to $25k all ready.

    If he fully sold 100 guns that is $70K to work with. Even 150 guns fully sold would nearly cover his cost to make nearing on 500, and a bank would look at that and see 350 units at $750 each in stock, or over $250k in retail ($200k wholesale) with $100k paid upfront and they would jump at it.

    I suspect he will not reach his goal. 200 guns, he could make it easy. 500 is a bit of a stretch for a $700 pump.

    Lots of brilliant in that gun though. Hope it floats!
    As I said, I have been at this for years. If it could be done in smaller batches of course I would have. There is a long history with this. The first run of 80 being the only run, most people do not know of the saga of this. Your opinions are valued and I really like that people are talking about this, however please understand that all of your points have been addressed in the other forums and all have a reason for why it is what it is.

    It's common to say "If he sold 100 guns". But what does one do....if they won't actually make 100 guns? Or 200. And if the cost only is reasonable if the amount climbs to 500 guns? I crowdfund like so many others using that platform today. Your math is only incorrect because the assumtion of my cost per marker. And banks aren't too keen on floating to the paintball industy these days never mind floating to one person.

    Please visit the mentioned forums for much more detail on this. I've taken a lot of time in explaining peoples concerns and hope to continue the best that I can.

    No doubt, 500 markers is an extremely tall order. I know this. But given the choice of not doing it at all, or doing it this way..........I chose to do it this way. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't reach that goal, I tried.

    Thanks a bunch!

    And Fullofpaint thank you for taking the time to post it! I appreciate it.

    Rodney

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