Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Question about Solenoids (comparison)

  1. #1
    Insider TierOneJeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    191

    Question about Solenoids (comparison)

    Now I admittedly know little about electronics... was talking to a friend recently about different electros and he mentioned that he heard 'Humphrey was the way to go'... just curious. What's the difference between Humprey and SMC or MAC when it comes to Solenoids? I know Bob Long uses Humprey, but PE uses SMC... what's the difference? I know in the old AKA guns you could go back and forth between with Dwell changes.

    Thanks
    If there is another group of people outside of paintballers who will jump on a bandwagon faster than the speed of light - I have yet to meet them.

  2. #2
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,084
    Andy actually has a great series of pages on this very topic.

    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solenoids_design.html

    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solenoids_models.html

    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solen...tactuated.html

    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solenoids_humphrey.html

    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solenoids_mac.html

    http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/solenoids_smc.html

    To (painfully breifly) answer your questions, SMC, Parker and Humphrey solenoids used in paintball are indirect acting, whereas MAC valves are direct acting. Direct acting is typically a faster response. Humphrey developed the CRCB series of solenoids to be more resilient at higher pressures, but the tradeoff is a somewhat slower valve than the "equivalent" Parker.

    As an aside, PE did use SMC valves in some older Egos, but in their high-end markers they use custom MAC valves now. I think they might still use SMC valves in the Etek, maybe even a clippard valve in the Etha. I know Clippard has their valves manufactured in Italy, at any rate.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 06-12-2015 at 03:05 PM.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  3. #3
    Insider TierOneJeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    191
    Thanks, I will check out the articles!
    If there is another group of people outside of paintballers who will jump on a bandwagon faster than the speed of light - I have yet to meet them.

  4. #4
    Insider TierOneJeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    191
    ok, so after reading... would there be an easy way of comparing say the power requirements of say an HEA10A5-GL-101W with ... I dunno, whatever the current undefined Etek 5 SMC solenoid is (Jack care to share?)... or for instance would that Open Source Tempest board run a HEA10A5 where it will (obviosuly) run an SMC in the Etek 5?
    If there is another group of people outside of paintballers who will jump on a bandwagon faster than the speed of light - I have yet to meet them.

  5. #5
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,084
    First a disclaimer: I GUARANTEE NOTHING.

    So it looks like the Etek valve is a custom variant of the SYJ series valve (Model no. SYJ3140-VG-X111)



    The datasheet is here:
    http://www.smcpneumatics.com/pdfs/SYJ_5PT.pdf

    It probably runs on 5V, and the claimed response time is "less than 15ms"

    The datasheet for the HEA is here:
    http://www.airsoldier.com/mm5/graphi...EB_HJC-HJE.pdf

    That appears to be the 5V variant, and the claimed response time is 6ms.

    So you probably won't run into early PWM issues, and the electrical specs seem similar. I don't see an obvious reason one couldn't be substituted for the other pneumatically or electrically, but again, I GUARANTEE NOTHING. One issue is the power requirement is higher for the HEA (0.55W vs. 0.35W for the SMC, but the custom variant in the ETEK may be higher than that). I doubt it's high enough to cause an issue, but there is a difference there.

    So the question becomes... will it fit? And the answer is not without a custom manifold, the port and screw spacing is different. And I don't know if the valve body will even fit in the frame.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 06-12-2015 at 04:18 PM.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  6. #6
    Insider TierOneJeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    First a disclaimer: I GUARANTEE NOTHING.

    So you probably won't run into early PWM issues, and the electrical specs seem similar. I don't see an obvious reason one couldn't be substituted for the other pneumatically or electrically, but again, I GUARANTEE NOTHING. One issue is the power requirement is higher for the HEA (0.55W vs. 0.1W for the SMC, but the custom variant in the ETEK is probably higher than that). I doubt it's high enough to cause a big issue.

    So the question becomes... will it fit? And the answer is not without a custom manifold, the port and screw spacing is different. And I don't know if the valve body will even fit in the frame.
    Disclaimer accepted...

    sizing isn't an issue, as I was trying to determine if the Tempest board could be swapped into a marker that is already running a HEA without untoward drama. Maybe if Squirrel reads this he'd have some input here.
    If there is another group of people outside of paintballers who will jump on a bandwagon faster than the speed of light - I have yet to meet them.

  7. #7
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,084
    Well that's easy then. I don't see a BOM around for his board, but if you find one you can just look at the component he uses for a power regulator/DC-DC converter. Even if it's not adequate you could probably substitute it for something that is, parts capable of supplying 250mA at 5V are common.

    He would obviously know better than me, but if it were me I'd be comfortable enough assuming that would be fine to go ahead and give it a shot.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  8. #8
    I've run a MAC43 in my Etek for several years without a problem. PE has specifically warned (I believe it was in a thread on PBN) that doing so can damage the driver chip on the board due to the higher current draw, but it can function with one (longevity being the question, several years for me in a gun I play with not just tinker with is not all that many cycles compared to most people).

  9. #9
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,084
    Do you know what power the coil is rated at? Looks like the 43 comes in 4.0W, 3.0W, 2.5W, and 1.8W flavors standard.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  10. #10
    4 watt coil.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •