Dude, you argue a lot for no reason. The ram cartridge, the red valve from the tribal looks almost identical to the original Borg, etc. I'm not talking about stacked tubes in general. I'm talking 1 specific line.
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Dude, you argue a lot for no reason. The ram cartridge, the red valve from the tribal looks almost identical to the original Borg, etc. I'm not talking about stacked tubes in general. I'm talking 1 specific line.
Who is arguing? I am stating an opinion on what i think from what i have seen/read in my 20 years in paintball. Just by looks, how many bolts, rammers or other parts look identical? Besides the fact that, the red valve uses a specific stem and seal design(flat washer type seal, not a ring or oring), with the dimensions are different to fit in the different bodies. I am offering up a different theory to possibly why or where they came from. IIRC, the tribals came from Europe, not Australia.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa
Most of us here have been involved in the sport 20+ years.
http://www.tribal-paintball.com/tog/....php?f-17.html
Toxic Toys was the company behind tribal. Francois Louvette supposedly produced the markers. MacDev did make sonic LPRs and valves for the tribal. Aftet being screwed over, in their side of the story, Rich or Blue supposedly were going to bring back the design but felt like the cyborg had done it. Fatangel911@hotmail.com is supposedly Francois' email... No clue if it's still active, but it was posted publicly. He also joined the site above and answered questions. To get the whole story from other perspectives HaveBlue would be a contact I'd reach out to and I've already reached out to "shifty" on MCB because it is rumored he was involved with the business side of tribal.
Lets see.
I know a good chunk on the FEP/Zodiac stuff, knowing Andy Erik and Chris, but only at the point after the break up. Andy can best tell what happened during the mess, if we want to be historically accurate. The phase from the ZR-1 to the Machine I have some experience with. I even got a look at the last Vapor before it was announced because Spurlock asked J&M to make the body for him, and now he wants to get my sales guy to work for him - though he owes my sales guy a few guns.
The PVI story is fun. I had a Golden Warrior 9000 for a bit - the board was bad though.
And I know some of the Vanguard story, since I worked with J&M initially. PeeGee would also know a good chunk more, he did a lot of the design. I even had dinner a few times with the guy who put the $2M into it.
The basic PVI bit:
SP had been working with PVI to make the Max Flow regs. In their marketing promotions for the max flow they said "Designed by Nasa Engineers" - which is right, PVI did work for them. After that PVI either had an idea for an electro gun, or SP asked them to design one. SP didn't know how to do it either way. So PVI designed the Shocker. Then SP decided to make it themselves. And had filed a patent. Of course, since they were patent attorneys. So PVI took their design, added a lot of kinda fun electronics, like the screen and the break beam sensor in the front, and tried to get onto the market. SPI both tried to shut them down by strong arming their distributors and also with the patent. Somewhere in there I was sent one, and the board, a stacked arrangement with three parts, was shorted out. A small patent battle happened, and that is where we get the bit about them not having the ability to design the Shocker on their own, so the shocker designer had his name on it. PVI went to sell the remaining guns and their portion of the patent. I didn't have the $100k they wanted, but WDP had IIRC. So....that patent was the basis for the SP electronics patent. So when they used it for that, WDP had bought into it. Talk about missing an opportunity to get into that patent ownership.
That was in the late 90's that the patent and guns were up for sale, off the top of my head?
He had them produced in Poland if I remember correctly, or at least had them machined there. And he was supposedly quite the salesman. Later he was behind the 3A air tanks, setup under a company under his wife's name. They featured anime girls on them for the most part.Quote:
Francois Louvette supposedly produced the markers.
Got this from Shifty on MCB this morning:
That's Francois company.Quote:
LES Industries (joint venture joker & tribal fell under this company)
--> Diamond Labs (Jokers)
--> Toxic Toys (Tribals) '96-'98
cant remember name (Urban)
Boo-Yah (e-frames)
Mako (e-frames)
3A (barrels and tanks) '03-'05
Ah, yes, Diamond Labs also!
I do believe that between SP & PVI, that they(SP) had put an order in to PVI for a stupid level of guns with a quick turnaround, like 10k guns in 3 months. Which PVI could not fill. Which SP knew would break their contract. Because PVI filed bankruptcy or became insolvent, SP bought them out of all the rights, parts or something to that effect, thus starting the SP shocker. Then PVI sought to fight back with the Cyber9000 with enough changes to try and be better but then closed up.
Well since i am not officially affiliated with any company, i do tend to think i have to prove myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa
What you stated here, actually disproves what you said earlier. You stated the ram cartridges where the same. But now the LPR and valve were designed by MD. And again MacDev made valves and LPRs for cockers, Bushmasters and tribals. So again, not starting a arguement, just stating what i know specifically on the topic. MacDevs involvement with ICD and the B2Ks came in 2001/2002 when ICD had introduced their LCD series.
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