New e frame for autocockers

[weerez935]

I don't want it to be a rehash of what has been done (race, eblade) but I don't want it to be a retro fit (ndz). I want us to come up with a frame designed with cockers in mind. I do want compatibility so when someone buys a kit regardless of what cocker they have they can use it. They don't have to hunt for an mq or what not.

I would like to see improvements to the trigger. A roller bearing wave shape with a newer return system (whatever you guys think).

I would like to see the option to have nice grips. Eblade grips are nice but there have been so many improvements over the years I think we can do better.

I want the frame to look great. That's my biggest complaint with the ndz, it just looks funny on any mini cocker. It also feels cheap compared to other frames.

As far as operation goes you guys have much more experience than I do in this but it seems like there are two options: ferarri or Camry. I really would prefer after some thought a setup that is perhaps a bit finicky if the benefits outway the cost of maintainence.

As far as packaging. I think we should come up with a name for the frame and only put that on it. Then on the box we could put all the logos.

My want list in a frame:
Ergonomics
Trigger geometry and operation
Looks

[pbjosh]

Weerez - most of that I see is based on the grip covers actually. We find the right covers (or make them) and the rest fall in place. They have to be from a grip that is large enough to fit an assortment of bits in there, isn't going to be to complex to machine (Dye Ultralight for example or CSL) and still look good.

The Old School Angel grips are what I had in mind - the grips are comfy, have lots of options, good coverage, can fit a 9v, the board and a 'noid or some other cycling bit (Rotary switch?) with some room to spare.

Let's pick out grip covers, it really dictates the rest. Standard 45 really limits spacing for a 9V unless we get creative. And creative might be complex.

[Luke]

I'm trying to figure out what makes this an open source product?
Are there Autococker model files available for download?
If I design a new frame am I suppose to post the file for everyone to have access to?
Or is this just a brain trust?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around what's to be expected of the project.

[BTAutoMag]

I'd say treat this exactly how you did the frame design on AO

[weerez935]

@josh: I'm have no qualms departing from a 45
@Luke: I don't think you need to post anything you don't want too.

[pbjosh]

Luke:

As I see it we are just knocking out some concepts, and if we come up with a novel operation that operation is open.

After that if you or I want to put it out, cool. If anybody else here wants to, cool. This would be open in that the design is free use, no patents, no BS. Feel free to improve it or use it. At some point if we (you or I or whomever) makes money on it, we might kick back a small bit to the designers or Inception or.. I don't know really. Whomever Simon says. To some extent. :P

Edit: For example. I do one. Well, 100. Have a grip that matches my grip, with my grip cover, my board and controls and such. I pay some small fee? You do 10 - same deal, your bits. You pay some small fee? Or not. Weerez935 gains access to a shop and some industrial grade cash and makes his own. He most likely doesn't pay any fee, though there is something in there as a kickback with the licensing.

[Luke]

>

Just for the record, I'm neither insinuating or suggesting it be done a certain way, only trying to figure out where this is going.

So with that said, if we are giving kick backs to "designers or Inception" then that implies to me at least that "someone" will be designing the parts and making a file available to everyone(?)
Or, will we will be paying "the guy" (just for example) that says "hey, lets make a sled" to activate the sear(?)

I guess my point is that anyone that has actually ever designed, programmed, machined a prototyped(s) (until they had a working part and file) not to mention tooling, fixtures, materials and supplies, knows how much time, money and effort it takes just to get to the point were you have a viable working part. I know it all begins with an idea, but ideas are kind of the easy part or at least the least inexpensive of the whole process. However engineering skills definitely have value, that said, there is a big difference between an engineered part or model compared to a concept. (I could chase my tail here explaining that, hopefully it makes sense)

So are the kick backs for files or ideas or both?

Hopefully I'm not making too big of a deal out of it. I just don't want to jump on board and end up making the wrong move somewhere in the process.

[pbjosh]

Understood - and truth be told, I don't understand the process for fees and otherwise, and I don't want any pay for this. I should be doing just fine, as long as whomever builds the setup mentions it was the inception design I am fine.

Kickbacks can be figured at a point, say, if you used your CAD for a grip, they should be able to pay you a kickback. Like blueprints, they could 'purchase' the rights to recreate your grip. Or just purchase it done from you if you so choose to sell it.

Again - I am kinda clueless. Simon should wade in here and explain it, or somebody else who has done the research.

[weerez935]

I don't want any money, kick backs or what not. If I had access to CNC and solidworks I would be at least attempting to help in that regard, but as it sits I'm a broke college student with very little likely hood of having CNC access or industrial grade funds soon lol . I think the idea here is just to get something going. As far as the "open source" part I posted in this forum because it fit here best but I believe the idea is its your game, your rules, just don't sue people in the process. I think it's also labeled open source so when someone runs into a problem they can post the cad files and ask for advice or whatever.

I just want a frame that I can purchase that isn't ten years old.
My hands aren't out for kick backs or whatever. I do agree that paying royalties to everyone who says "that's cool" or "1 looks better than 2" is dumb, but for those who contribute maybe give them a frame at cost or something. I think Simon can probably explain it better than me and give you the official gist of it but I understood it as truely open source where there is a conglomeration to solve a problem then everyone puts their own twist on it.

And you're right I don't know the work required from idea to physical working part but I do know what it's like not to have access to make what I want and will gladly pay for it.

[Luke]

Ok, so it sounds more like a "brain trust". So we could do an "Inception Brain Trust" logo for kudos. I'd be willing to machine that into a frame.