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Thread: Systems approach to the paintball player population

  1. #21
    Insider noclue119's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    Tournament Level (keeping the players interested and playing):
    Fields need to be improved to encourage movement, somewhat, at all levels, but I think that this would particularly be helpful to people who play very frequently. I hesitate to artificially limit paint consumption beyond the ROF reduction we already see, but the stagnant nature of certain PSP layours is encouraging people to shoot a LOT of paint. There's always something to be said for 'rolling your guns', but I can't help but wonder if incentivize movement would help players avoid burnout. Proposed format changes (like vball) could be interesting, but I also think maybe a system where winning a game FASTER awards more points would help. If you could score 3 points by blitzing the other team, that would make comebacks more likely, and discourage the "up-off-the-break, choke them out" style some teams have used very successfully.
    I think the limited paint format is really cool. But most people won't switch to it because KEE/GI paid a lot of money to be paint sponsors. Even pump is pretty high volume paint now. I played OSC 2 weekends ago... The movement you are allowed is amazing.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by daveczrn View Post
    Gunfighting although cool, isn't the best way to get a kill. it's more about getting position and letting the position get the kills. rather than the gun fight to get the kills. Even 7 man you don't want to get into a gun fight, you want to hold the lane, not battle it out. even when i 1 balled people i had PRO coaches tell me that i shouldn't have gone for the kill that it was too risky.
    exactly my point. i've been coached many a time to simply never gun fight ... but of course, as a pump guy mostly, we know thats bullshit. you always gunfight, because you actually have a target to hit there is nothing more mentally taxing on your sanity, then shooting a lane between two bunkers, with a pump gun. the fact that you have to reload it just taxes your sanity, every single shot. all you think to yourself is "this is fuckin stupid"

    gun-fighting is 1. more fun 2. takes more skill 3. more fun to watch 4. people are hit fewer times

    in every way gunfighting should be encouraged by the format and technology we allow. but its not. sadly, our format encourages exactly what you say, a bunch of guys shooting lanes, waiting for someone to run through them. BORING. boring to watch, boring to play, expensive, and does not take that much skill (esp with coaching). and we wonder why tournament paintball is all but dead ....
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-04-2013 at 09:44 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #23
    Gun fighting is simply not the way to win top level events. Movement and shooting unsuspected targets is. Gun fighting is too risky.

    If you want to win, you should only be shooting at targets that aren't shooting at you, unless you absolutely tactically have to.

    I try not to gunfight even with a pump, and maybe especially with a pump. As a big guy the freedom I get to move on a pump field means I do just that. I move into better positions and shoot people that weren't expecting it.

    I wouldn't say tournament paintball is dead. The number of teams in the PSP right now is close to record levels. They are expecting to have a great World Cup. Local series are doing well also. It's the NPPL and European leagues that are having difficulties.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Gun fighting is simply not the way to win top level events. Movement and shooting unsuspected targets is. Gun fighting is too risky.

    If you want to win, you should only be shooting at targets that aren't shooting at you, unless you absolutely tactically have to.

    I try not to gunfight even with a pump, and maybe especially with a pump. As a big guy the freedom I get to move on a pump field means I do just that. I move into better positions and shoot people that weren't expecting it.

    I wouldn't say tournament paintball is dead. The number of teams in the PSP right now is close to record levels. They are expecting to have a great World Cup. Local series are doing well also. It's the NPPL and European leagues that are having difficulties.
    oh i know, and i agree .... but arn't we talking about ways to improve paintball here? i don't need a lesson on how to win tournament paintball here.

    formula 1 did this about 5 years, they said, well shit, no one wants to watch our races because nothing fun happens. passer of the year had like 9 passes all season in 2002. the fun and exciting part is passing and wheel to wheel racing, what can we do with our rulebook to encourage that? now formula 1 is very exciting to watch, ratings are back, and the racing is the best its been since senna's era.

    so, lets fix paintball. if the fun and exciting things to watch and play about paintball are movement, and gun fighting ... what can we do to encourage that? with side effects being cheaper gameplay, that is more newb friendly .... i can't find a downside. other then people who know the format on how to win, will get there panties all twisted.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-04-2013 at 10:10 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  5. #25
    I don't believe that watching two people sat in bunkers shooting at each other with luck paying a huge chance on who shoots the other out is more exciting than watching someone move up the field and shoot someone else in the side who wasn't expecting it.

    I would always rather encourage movement and the reward for it.

    I believe it is more fun doing it and more fun watching it.

    More and larger bunkers encourages movement, at least for someone like me it does.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I don't believe that watching two people sat in bunkers shooting at each other with luck paying a huge chance on who shoots the other out is more exciting than watching someone move up the field and shoot someone else in the side who wasn't expecting it.

    I would always rather encourage movement and the reward for it.

    I believe it is more fun doing it and more fun watching it.

    More and larger bunkers encourages movement, at least for someone like me it does.
    the two go hand in had. they are both offensive moves. shooting a lane is a defensive move.

    how often do you hear the crowd cheer at a national event when one snake guy gunfights the other out? thats usually the biggest cheer of the game. ok, that was back when snake players actually did gunfight ... but you get my point.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  7. #27
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    the two go hand in had. they are both offensive moves. shooting a lane is a defensive move.
    Disagree. Shooting a lane is a tactical move, you can't classify it as offensive or defensive. Boring, but not defensive.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    Disagree. Shooting a lane is a tactical move, you can't classify it as offensive or defensive. Boring, but not defensive.
    its almost always a defensive move. down on bodies? lock the lanes down.

    now don't get me wrong, you nab someone in your lane, you can then go on the offensive sometimes, but that would be moving ... an offensive move

    either way, its boring and expensive. it should not be the best method to win games.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #29
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    You can also use it to help your own players advance.

    And I think Simon's point, just after you told him you "don't need a lesson on how to win tournament paintball here", is that more and bigger bunkers is the way to prevent that. Shooting a lane becomes less effective when the cover is bigger and easier to get to. There's more to work with between lanes. People will move more often if it's not as big a risk. And shoot fewer lanes if it's not as beneficial.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    You can also use it to help your own players advance.

    And I think Simon's point, just after you told him you "don't need a lesson on how to win tournament paintball here", is that more and bigger bunkers is the way to prevent that. Shooting a lane becomes less effective when the cover is bigger and easier to get to. There's more to work with between lanes. People will move more often if it's not as big a risk. And shoot fewer lanes if it's not as beneficial.
    you can shoot yourself into a better bunker, that usually comes from gaining dominance in a gun fight, but for the most part, speedball style fields are not arranged in a way to allow one person to directly support another.

    bigger bunkers, i fully agree with. and not just bigger, i think we need more shapes, and less standard shapes. i also dislike that the layouts are posted pre-event. but more fun to see teams show up and have to come up with gameplans on the fly.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-04-2013 at 11:24 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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