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Thread: Let's put Cockerpunk on the spot

  1. #31
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    I definitely don't agree with the originally referenced post. It is based on the assumption that everyone has the same preferences for tactics. In the past, with everyone shooting the same projectiles, there really wasn't an opportunity for variations in tactics and effectiveness. One could only really effectively limit themselves, thereby forcing themselves to use or not use specific tactics. i.e. someone using a stock class gun versus an experienced player isn't suited for suppression. Someone using a pump isn't the best for laning. Another example would be the old performance arguments against 'paintball snipers' (i.e. no longer range, no better accuracy).

    I frequently came close to getting out of paintball because I really don't find any fun or satisfaction in snapshooting with folks, getting in close, working angles, accuracy through volume, and/or suppression. The thing is, if everyone's shooting the same projectile, then the folks who do those tasks better will typically do better than others. I can do it but, it just begins to feel repetitive, especially so on static playing fields (especially speedball fields). Maybe it's because I don't get as much of a rush out of it as others.

    Things start to get more interesting when you introduce different projectiles. For example, if someone really likes to get close, and shoot a hell of a lot, while still remaining relatively lightweight, a .50 caliber paintball gun would be the best choice. At the other end of the spectrum, if someone likes staying at a distance, and not firing very much and making accurate shots, FS rounds are the best choice. These projectile choices drive folks towards different pieces of equipment. Anything beyond that is simply user preferences.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    Your enthusiasm to tell other people what they "need" to be shooting is interesting. This is paintball, none of us "need" to do it at all - last time I checked it was recreational entertainment. The only gun you need, on any level, to be effective and have fun playing paintball is the one you have fun owning, maintaining and shooting. You seem to acknowledge this point in your last post with a disdain for mech ions. That said, if you shoot an Azodin Kaos with a lurker eigenbarrel, kick-reducing balanced cup seal, regulator, and an on/off ASA, you don't know how to spend your own money. *cough*

    This discussion shouldn't be about what gear you need to shoot. It shouldn't even be about what you want to shoot. Most people who've been around more than a couple years know what's up. The discussion that's worth having (and was possibly intended, however poorly approached) is the perception of new entries to the market that a $1000+ marker is necessary to be competitive and have a good time.

    Everyone acknowledges costs in paintball are a massive barrier to entry, and this perception only exacerbates things.
    you clearly missed the point of everything if you think i am trying to tell people what they need to be shooting.

    turn it around 180 degrees, and that is my point.

    actually on page #2 i think i sum it up rather well:

    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    that while im happy to argue the fine details of anything technically related to paintball ... the ultimate truth is that simply doesn't matter. it never did.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 01-30-2014 at 04:47 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #33
    and that's the problem. you try to make a point where you don't have to. paintball is meant to be fun. the different guns, the difference variations(pump, mech, electro, pneumatic) on shooting, the different feed methods(rock & cock, spring feed, gravity, agitated, force), the different gases(co2, compressed air, N2); which lets all people be equal on the field, for it takes just one ball to eliminate a player. you should get satisfaction on not relying on pure speed of shot or volume, just that you are having fun and enjoying yourself doing so. like many people will say about the professional leagues taking the fun out of it(going from a game to a "sport", you are doing the same because you are saying to everyone that they don't need to spend money to be effective or that you only need this cheap gun to be considered anything. its all a choice, a personal choice. i may not agree with some people on what they use or how they play, but i will agree that its their choice.
    Last edited by Nobody; 01-30-2014 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #34
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    Am I the only one here that keeps thinking you two are arguing the same point? It doesn't matter what you get, so get what you want. Is there a subtext here I'm missing?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    and that's the problem. you try to make a point where you don't have to. paintball is meant to be fun. the different guns, the difference variations(pump, mech, electro, pneumatic) on shooting, the different feed methods(rock & cock, spring feed, gravity, agitated, force), the different gases(co2, compressed air, N2); which lets all people be equal on the field, for it takes just one ball to eliminate a player. you should get satisfaction on not relying on pure speed of shot or volume, just that you are having fun and enjoying yourself doing so. like many people will say about the professional leagues taking the fun out of it(going from a game to a "sport", you are doing the same because you are saying to everyone that they don't need to spend money to be effective or that you only need this cheap gun to be considered anything. its all a choice, a personal choice. i may not agree with some people on what they use or how they play, but i will agree that its their choice.
    you are fighting windmills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    Am I the only one here that keeps thinking you two are arguing the same point? It doesn't matter what you get, so get what you want. Is there a subtext here I'm missing?
    the subtext is he doesn't like me.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #36
    nope. when you are wrong and you are often that, i will be there to say so. but you do like to pose a question then change the question to suit your needs.

    its not that i don't like you, its just that you type the stupidest things, trying to make yourself seem above it all. though we all are guilty of it, you just have a propensity for doing so. though the quip of me being Don Quixote is cute. wonder how told you about that?

    you came on here saying(i know, you didn't post this, but it was directly about you) that: "there is essentially no need, on any level, for a gun with more capablities then this one to be effective and have fun playing paintball:". that is a foolhardy statement, if there was any. though an opinion, and i don't need to follow(which i won't), you come off like what you say(or type) is the truth. that is what i have a problem with you. that and most of your "scientific paintball research" is flawed in one way or another.

  7. #37
    OK, guys: this thread has dissolved into a case of "You smell bad... because you do! You are a twit... because you are!"

    Here is the thing: I have watched a lot of Cockerpunk's Old School videos, and some of his pump gun reviews helped ease me into pump. Did I agree with everything he said? Not at all. Did I find everything he said to be gospel? Nope. Did he at least say something? Yup. I have a certain soft spot for people who try to solve things; even if they only find more questions or find unpopular answers.

    That said, please do not think that I am defending Cockerpunk, or damning him. I am just stating a subjective observation.

    From what I gathered in the original post carried over from TechPB is that guns have caught up with each other. It is not like years ago when the high end gun really did out perform the low end guns. It is almost like saying "Why do you need a Dodge Viper; when a Dodge Neon has four wheels, seats, a steering wheel, gets better gas mileage, doesn't go as fast nor accelerate as quickly: you won't get as many speeding tickets, etc. And, they are going to get you to your destination all the same."

    So, that covered: Why would you want something other than the Kaos? Because you want something different, and that is a good enough reason. The point is that if you are happy with what you bring to the field; then you are 99% of the way there. IF you like the Kaos, great. IF you bought a $1500 dollar Vanquish and are getting a DM14 to play rec ball (I'm guilty) great.

    So why have these high ends when I can get an Azodin to do the requisite paint slinging? Because I have a good job and I can enjoy having these things now. Why do I have an MVP (BTW Cockerpunk, you need to review one), a pumped KAPP Reflex, and an in progress Inception Sniper... why not? I enjoy them. He was not damning anyone with that post. He did not call anyone stupid, nor did he tell anyone they were wrong.

    The problem with the internet, speaking as a mid-thirties guy who did not have a computer until he was 21, is that the internet makes everyone think their opinions are facts. They are just opinions. Subjective. Not universal.

    In the end (yes this is winding down) there are a lot of insanely intelligent and just plain insane people on this board. Some are my juniors, and some my seniors. But, the fact of the matter is that is someone posts an opinion, no matter how wrong it seems to you, it is just that. Take it with a grain of salt and press on with your day or night. If you feel the need to call them out, do so. But, again with the people and the egos on this board do not expect them to not fire back.

    Agree to Disagree...

  8. #38
    I just think that Gordon was board and going trolling like he has a propensity to do often. Throw a grenade into a room and stand back and watch kind of thing...

    - - - Updated - - -

    also I'm thinking Taco Bell for lunch if you get here at a reasonable time...I'll buy lol

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    nope. when you are wrong and you are often that, i will be there to say so. but you do like to pose a question then change the question to suit your needs.

    its not that i don't like you, its just that you type the stupidest things, trying to make yourself seem above it all. though we all are guilty of it, you just have a propensity for doing so. though the quip of me being Don Quixote is cute. wonder how told you about that?

    you came on here saying(i know, you didn't post this, but it was directly about you) that: "there is essentially no need, on any level, for a gun with more capablities then this one to be effective and have fun playing paintball:". that is a foolhardy statement, if there was any. though an opinion, and i don't need to follow(which i won't), you come off like what you say(or type) is the truth. that is what i have a problem with you. that and most of your "scientific paintball research" is flawed in one way or another.
    if you believe that is a foolhardy statement then you need to go play some paintball. maybe get a bit better at it. or maybe just lighten up, and remember we are grown men, dressed as clowns, shooting gelatine pills at each other while we hide behind inflatable lawn decorations.

    lets also point out this post, saying that is a foolhearty statement, is in direct conflict with your previous post in this thread, stating that you believe anyone should be able to shoot anything and it doesn't matter (which was my point all along). this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    and that's the problem. you try to make a point where you don't have to. paintball is meant to be fun. the different guns, the difference variations(pump, mech, electro, pneumatic) on shooting, the different feed methods(rock & cock, spring feed, gravity, agitated, force), the different gases(co2, compressed air, N2); which lets all people be equal on the field, for it takes just one ball to eliminate a player. you should get satisfaction on not relying on pure speed of shot or volume, just that you are having fun and enjoying yourself doing so. like many people will say about the professional leagues taking the fun out of it(going from a game to a "sport", you are doing the same because you are saying to everyone that they don't need to spend money to be effective or that you only need this cheap gun to be considered anything. its all a choice, a personal choice. i may not agree with some people on what they use or how they play, but i will agree that its their choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by breg View Post
    OK, guys: this thread has dissolved into a case of "You smell bad... because you do! You are a twit... because you are!"

    Here is the thing: I have watched a lot of Cockerpunk's Old School videos, and some of his pump gun reviews helped ease me into pump. Did I agree with everything he said? Not at all. Did I find everything he said to be gospel? Nope. Did he at least say something? Yup. I have a certain soft spot for people who try to solve things; even if they only find more questions or find unpopular answers.

    That said, please do not think that I am defending Cockerpunk, or damning him. I am just stating a subjective observation.

    From what I gathered in the original post carried over from TechPB is that guns have caught up with each other. It is not like years ago when the high end gun really did out perform the low end guns. It is almost like saying "Why do you need a Dodge Viper; when a Dodge Neon has four wheels, seats, a steering wheel, gets better gas mileage, doesn't go as fast nor accelerate as quickly: you won't get as many speeding tickets, etc. And, they are going to get you to your destination all the same."

    So, that covered: Why would you want something other than the Kaos? Because you want something different, and that is a good enough reason. The point is that if you are happy with what you bring to the field; then you are 99% of the way there. IF you like the Kaos, great. IF you bought a $1500 dollar Vanquish and are getting a DM14 to play rec ball (I'm guilty) great.

    So why have these high ends when I can get an Azodin to do the requisite paint slinging? Because I have a good job and I can enjoy having these things now. Why do I have an MVP (BTW Cockerpunk, you need to review one), a pumped KAPP Reflex, and an in progress Inception Sniper... why not? I enjoy them. He was not damning anyone with that post. He did not call anyone stupid, nor did he tell anyone they were wrong.

    The problem with the internet, speaking as a mid-thirties guy who did not have a computer until he was 21, is that the internet makes everyone think their opinions are facts. They are just opinions. Subjective. Not universal.

    In the end (yes this is winding down) there are a lot of insanely intelligent and just plain insane people on this board. Some are my juniors, and some my seniors. But, the fact of the matter is that is someone posts an opinion, no matter how wrong it seems to you, it is just that. Take it with a grain of salt and press on with your day or night. If you feel the need to call them out, do so. But, again with the people and the egos on this board do not expect them to not fire back.

    Agree to Disagree...
    the irony being that a koas, is more unique then any high end electro, or pump or mech. that is the irony and purpose of this post.

    i liked the MVP, except the autotrigger binds
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #40
    food for thought ... how different would the response be to this, if it was a VM68?

    very different ... very very different.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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