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Thread: The OT thread V1

  1. #3931
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    1st, its not the police but governments that purchase vehicles. A lot of times, the purchaser has no clue as to why a vehicle needs this feature.
    2nd, reliability of an EV is not the issue, but capabilities. Large metropolitan areas there isn't that big of a deal, but county, regional and state vehicles where you have large areas, where you may not be able to get to a changing area when the battery dies. It is far easier to bring a gas can to get them on their way, from either other law enforcement or even civilian help.
    3rd the shear amount of power usage in a police vehicle is not conducive towards EV. Even something as simple as a traffic light out, that police cruiser is sitting with lights on for hours. It is not the quick dash or sprints ,its the long term usage. Warning lights, radios, computers and the vehicle, that is a huge drain on power. Can an EV battery pack actually handle that much and still be able to punch it when needed?
    4th it takes law enforcement decades to convert to new tech. Look at how bad police didn't give up revolvers, or even certain makes of vehicles. Police stick to what they know.
    5th how are high speed handling characteristics of EVs? I do not know, and i am not talking about race prepped models, but the typical miles long, full throttle hammering. Police are horrible drivers, which all things considered, they have to much to really deal with. Then add in a heavy EV and you have potential wrecks by the people who are supposed to represent law & order.
    6th till the major manufacturers actually offer an as equally capable EV with the police package, we may never know. Police might actually want an EV for certain areas, but till Ford, Chevy, Dodge make one, they won't get one.
    Typically an EV drives like it is on rails because all the weight is in the floor. Torque out the ass and a center of gravity that cant get much lower they are superior to their gasser counterparts pound for pound typically

    I think they were trying to sell them hybrids to counteract the need of charging fwiw.

    It is kind of stupid that all police vehicles are not diesel it is also stupid that all hybrids are not diesel but besides that it makes more sense for them to use the hybrids when possible in my opinion, Most of the NY state agencies have switched to EV and hybrid, whenever we have to provide a car for the cities engineer or someone it has to be an EV now. All meter maid cops are being transitioned to EV cars as well in the city.

  2. #3932
    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    Typically an EV drives like it is on rails because all the weight is in the floor. Torque out the ass and a center of gravity that cant get much lower they are superior to their gasser counterparts pound for pound typically

    I think they were trying to sell them hybrids to counteract the need of charging fwiw.

    It is kind of stupid that all police vehicles are not diesel it is also stupid that all hybrids are not diesel but besides that it makes more sense for them to use the hybrids when possible in my opinion, Most of the NY state agencies have switched to EV and hybrid, whenever we have to provide a car for the cities engineer or someone it has to be an EV now. All meter maid cops are being transitioned to EV cars as well in the city.
    That is because the 80s soured the general public on diesels, even though we have had 40 years of development that has made diesels better than gasoline counterparts in all but name. Not only the work of Audi, Mercedes, BMW in their car lines, but the advantages that a diesels will give, especially in a hybrid.

    I believe that the infrastructure of having the 2 different fuel tanks at some stations is why. Only in the past 2 years has WaWa gotten diesel, but even then there are no commodities for big rigs. So the added expense, the added costs for 2 fuels, the differing suppliers(in some cases) and the general bad and wrong feelings towards it.

    Hell, for the past 10 years, i have been saying that Ford would have a million seller in a 1/2 ton F150 diesel. A smallish 3.0L or so 4 banger that is more affordable than the Powerstrokes in the F250 and above. More workers and more people would embrace that diesel that could not afford the $30k+ for a new F250. Not only would the numbers of the class fuel efficiency go up, but near dominate the entire line.

  3. #3933
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    This is a layman's take, I've seen the numbers and acknowledge they look good for diesel, but still I seem to see a lot of white tdi Jettas with black trunks when they go too long without a carwash.
    Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer!

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  4. #3934
    Insider Pump Scout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    Serious question: why didn't they like it?
    Price is probably the biggest thing. Even at the police rate they get from Ford, which is significantly lower than public pricing (for admittedly different vehicles - you can't get an Explorer with 3rd row seat delete and plastic hose-out rear seats), it was going to be about $4500 more per vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    1st, its not the police but governments that purchase vehicles. A lot of times, the purchaser has no clue as to why a vehicle needs this feature.
    For our police department, it's the department themselves making the decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    2nd, reliability of an EV is not the issue, but capabilities. Large metropolitan areas there isn't that big of a deal, but county, regional and state vehicles where you have large areas, where you may not be able to get to a changing area when the battery dies. It is far easier to bring a gas can to get them on their way, from either other law enforcement or even civilian help.
    For a pure EV, that'd certainly be a problem. For a hybrid, not an issue at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    3rd the shear amount of power usage in a police vehicle is not conducive towards EV. Even something as simple as a traffic light out, that police cruiser is sitting with lights on for hours. It is not the quick dash or sprints ,its the long term usage. Warning lights, radios, computers and the vehicle, that is a huge drain on power. Can an EV battery pack actually handle that much and still be able to punch it when needed?
    Tough to say yet, there's not that many out there so far. Again, much more of a concern for a pure EV than a hybrid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    4th it takes law enforcement decades to convert to new tech. Look at how bad police didn't give up revolvers, or even certain makes of vehicles. Police stick to what they know.
    100% true. Proven commodities are more likely to be purchased than some unknown. They're more likely to add a hybrid here or there as a shift commander vehicle. That's where I see them breaking into the law enforcement market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    5th how are high speed handling characteristics of EVs? I do not know, and i am not talking about race prepped models, but the typical miles long, full throttle hammering. Police are horrible drivers, which all things considered, they have to much to really deal with. Then add in a heavy EV and you have potential wrecks by the people who are supposed to represent law & order.
    I'm looking forward to trying them out when we inevitably get one or two on the lot. I like the Fusion/MKZ Hybrid, as well as the C-Max, but those aren't pure EV's, nor are the designed as hybrids. Newer models will be designed with being a hybrid in mind, so they should be that much better. Case in point - the new Explorer's battery pack is about the size of a briefcase, and fits into the floor under the 2nd row's foot area on the passenger side. No loss of space, no goofy giant battery pack. Compact, light, inconspicuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    6th till the major manufacturers actually offer an as equally capable EV with the police package, we may never know. Police might actually want an EV for certain areas, but till Ford, Chevy, Dodge make one, they won't get one.
    The Explorer actually has more power, and the hybrid system doesn't add much weight. They've been designed from the ground up in the 2020+ generation to be hybrid capable, as have many of the other new Fords. Can't say about the other brands. I can say there's been a Fusion Pursuit Hybrid available for a couple years, and we've seen zero get ordered/sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    it doesn't matter what they like. its over.

    no matter how conservative, no matter how much folks dont like it, the electric car is coming for them. get on board or its over.
    Has anyone ever mentioned that sometimes it's not what you're saying, but how you're saying it, that rubs people wrong? Or that you can be as correct as humanly possible, but if your message gets lost in all the salt it's delivered with, nobody's going to listen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Statements like this that will only encourage the Cult of V8 to become a real thing, knowing Valhalla is waiting for them all shiny and chrome...
    Exactly. As much as I'm looking forward to the hybrid Mustang that's coming eventually, there's a TON of people who will ONLY buy a V8 Mustang, because that's how a proper Mustang should be powered. Never mind that the hybrid is likely to be quicker, and burn less gas while going faster.
    Last edited by Pump Scout; 07-13-2019 at 11:28 PM.

  5. #3935
    Insider imped4now's Avatar
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    EV's (Teslas) don't interest me in the slightest. I want an EV about as much as I want a stroke.

    I've worked in automotive for quite a while, have driven a P100D and Model 3, and really just don't care for them. Until IC cars quite literally are no longer available I won't make the move.
    OlllllllO

  6. #3936
    Also, one other point. I don't know if the police Explorers are AWD, but i know that most police prefer RWD. I know that the local police here HATED the FWD chevy Impala no matter how good it could be. To go FWD or an AWD may be the sticking factor.as i do not know how well a FWD or an AWD vehicle reacts to being used in a PITT manuever. Again, it may not be represented on the paper why an EV/Hybrid may not work.

  7. #3937
    Insider Pump Scout's Avatar
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    Our department orders them as AWD, and Ford's system makes the call as to when to power all the wheels. The 2020 Explorers are now rear drive standard rather than front, which is an interesting move. Stretches the wheelbase without stretching the vehicle, and allows for the 10-speed transmission.

  8. #3938
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    This is a layman's take, I've seen the numbers and acknowledge they look good for diesel, but still I seem to see a lot of white tdi Jettas with black trunks when they go too long without a carwash.
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    This is a layman's take, I've seen the numbers and acknowledge they look good for diesel, but still I seem to see a lot of white tdi Jettas with black trunks when they go too long without a carwash.
    You know that is completely true with my MKIV TDI thing is a black smoke show. Mine was able to roll coal with the best of them if I didnt clear its throat for a few thousand miles.

    My MKVII that I drive now, I sadly havent had a car wash on it in over a year. Just wiped my fingers across my rear bumper, dirty but not soot. The newer tdi drinks the DEF fluid now post updates.

    https://theicct.org/sites/default/fi...19_05_07_0.pdf

    If we are considering Co2 emissions in general the 2.0L diesel is roughly comparable to a 1.5L gasser that is not available in america because it is to small and slow. It is just the 1.8L available in the VW gassers here. NoX emissions are supposed to be under control now that they got their peckers smacked for the cheating the first go around. There is a crazy documentary about that bullshit on netflix it is a series called dirty money the VW scandal was the first episode, they tried to pull some real messed up shit to get around the regulations, and continuously lied after they were caught saying that they fixed the problem and didnt on multiple occasions.

    Post recall though a slightly used tdi is the best commuter car deal in america at the moment. They are all under 20k and have a 10 year up to 160,000 mile powertrain warranty because of the dieselgate scandal. Mine gets minimum 50 mpg highway and 40 mpg around town, has torque out the ass and is a genuinely decent place to sit in the foe leather seats with my 6 speed. They are available in many configurations now too. 2 door, 4 door, hatch, sedan, nicer sedan, suv, convertible, wagon, automatic or manual. Screaming deal for anyone thinking of getting a new commuter.
    Last edited by Florypb505; 07-14-2019 at 06:16 PM.

  9. #3939
    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    Has anyone ever mentioned that sometimes it's not what you're saying, but how you're saying it, that rubs people wrong? Or that you can be as correct as humanly possible, but if your message gets lost in all the salt it's delivered with, nobody's going to listen?
    a discussion isn't a comparison of who can be more polite

    diesel is done, if it wasnt done before dieselgate, and it was, its dead as a doornail now.

    the Europeans have abandoned it vis a vis development efforts, its over
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #3940
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    a discussion isn't a comparison of who can be more polite
    Think of politeness as lubricant for the transmission of information. Even you are more receptive when I'm not being an ass.
    Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer!

    I work for the company building the Paragon

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