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Thread: The OT thread V1

  1. #3791
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    That's a fantastically logical response, yet his point is that emotions are involved, which precludes your logic.
    one can be wise and understand an emotion, and yet make a reasonable choice that doesn't put 3 lives in significant danger of being ruined. its called being an adult. crisis response is a poor place to make decisions from. emotionally mature humans know this.



    interestingly, we are coming to point where i'm going to have to start telling my family that i am poly and in serious dating relationships with two women. i dont think consciously this will be an issue, my parents and brother and sister in law are all good people, but i can't help worrying that subconsciously they will treat kassy differently after we tell them we also date other people. ie, basically not take our relationship as seriously as they currently do.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  2. #3792
    Insider imped4now's Avatar
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    They probably won't....but can you really blame them?
    OlllllllO

  3. #3793
    Quote Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
    They probably won't....but can you really blame them?
    mmmm, no i can't. there isn't really a narrative out there for this not being a garbage fire of a situation. or some kind of coping mechanism for a failed or failing relationship. or a sign that someone is incomplete or inadequate. just because thats the narrative in the culture, doesn't mean its true. its actually a perfect example of how stories and narratives, true or false, actually create the real world. rather than the other way around. it takes changing the story, which takes time. a generation ago homosexuality was a mental illness requiring electro shock therapy, now we of course know that it isn't and it is a perfectly valid, and functional way to have relationships. the story had to change. we need stories of happy, stable, non-monogamous relationships.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 04-24-2019 at 11:11 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #3794
    Insider new ion?'s Avatar
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    So on Sunday our foster dog got adopted and went to his forever home. They're great people and he'll do so well there.

    Monday, I drop Sam off at the airport for a week long conference, and pick up another foster dog...

    This new foster Libby is COMPLETELY different from our other ones. She's super reserved and scared and I am so stressed out for her. I was so happy to wake up to piss and shit on the floor this morning; meaning she finally ate/drank/evacuated. Who would have thought that a dog that does nothing but lay in her crate all the time would be so stressful?

    I haven't been able to touch her yet, I haven't gotten her outside - I've never actually seen her outside of her crate. Luckily I have emotional & idea support from Alexa (my dog)'s sister's owner/mom as well as the rescue owner because otherwise I might have died of heart attack by now.

  5. #3795
    Quote Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
    So on Sunday our foster dog got adopted and went to his forever home. They're great people and he'll do so well there.

    Monday, I drop Sam off at the airport for a week long conference, and pick up another foster dog...

    This new foster Libby is COMPLETELY different from our other ones. She's super reserved and scared and I am so stressed out for her. I was so happy to wake up to piss and shit on the floor this morning; meaning she finally ate/drank/evacuated. Who would have thought that a dog that does nothing but lay in her crate all the time would be so stressful?

    I haven't been able to touch her yet, I haven't gotten her outside - I've never actually seen her outside of her crate. Luckily I have emotional & idea support from Alexa (my dog)'s sister's owner/mom as well as the rescue owner because otherwise I might have died of heart attack by now.
    trauma is a thing.

    i read about an experiment with dogs in the book "the body keeps the score" (highly recommend), about dogs who were electrocuted in cages and not allowed to leave. and then after essentially getting used to being shocked in these cages, they opened the doors to let them out. and they stayed in the cages. even when shocked again, they stayed in the cages. the control experiment was done, where they shocked some dogs just once, and then opened the cages, and they ran free out of the cages. the dogs who refused to leave literally had to be physically fought to pull them out of the cages, even though thats where they were being shocked. and they would run back into the cages if allowed to, even when shocked again.

    the brain, literally re-wires itself due to trauma with some very very counter intuitive functions. when fear is all you know, its all you are.

    interestingly i think the phenomena is not unlike the self-triggering conservative brain. addicted to being angry at everything, addicted to the trigger.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 04-24-2019 at 11:14 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #3796
    Insider new ion?'s Avatar
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    I think the trauma is due to the flight - I have photos of her before the flight cuddling with the rescue owner in the DR. You've got some excellent thoughts there, thank you for that insight.

    Alexa's sister's owner said her dog (Rosie) was similar for the first couple days - it was very difficult to lure her out of the crate, ignoring everything, etc.

  7. #3797
    I recently fostered, of sorts of a new dog. The owner is dying. It might be next week, might be next year, so she is getting all her affairs in order. So this visit was to allow the owner to go into the hospital for a procedure, while seeing how the dog is in my home and with my cat. This will be my first male(all others had been females) and the dog has some bad traits and minor abuse from the owner's developmental cchallenged daughter(who you can't blame). So the dog doesn't like hairdryers, or trash bags, and will bark.

    But my previous dog was abused. She was a happy pee'er. When she was happy, she would pee. This is a trait that most dogs will grow out of it. The old owner, when this happened, would get upset, and then she would pee again, exacerbating the problem. It was a vicious circle and the old owner didn't understand that. where when we got her, i suspected they chased her with brooms, locked her in a laundry room, shot the water hose at her and did bad things. She reacted all violently towards those things, biting a brrom for example.

    A lot of it, we found out afterwards. The peeing, was remedied by immediately letting the dog outside upon greeting(she would be happy to see you come home & then pee) and doing the greeting & peeing outside, to mitigate the peeing and to save the mess, as well as not showing anger when a mistake happens. After 8 years she got remarkably better to the point where she barely ever did it anymore. Suffice to say, behavior can be changed, but requires time, patience and understanding.

    So give it time and love.

  8. #3798
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    trauma is a thing.

    i read about an experiment with dogs in the book "the body keeps the score" (highly recommend), about dogs who were electrocuted in cages and not allowed to leave. and then after essentially getting used to being shocked in these cages, they opened the doors to let them out. and they stayed in the cages. even when shocked again, they stayed in the cages. the control experiment was done, where they shocked some dogs just once, and then opened the cages, and they ran free out of the cages. the dogs who refused to leave literally had to be physically fought to pull them out of the cages, even though thats where they were being shocked. and they would run back into the cages if allowed to, even when shocked again.

    the brain, literally re-wires itself due to trauma with some very very counter intuitive functions. when fear is all you know, its all you are.

    interestingly i think the phenomena is not unlike the self-triggering conservative brain. addicted to being angry at everything, addicted to the trigger.
    Been reading Seligman? Feeling down?
    "He died on that hill even though no one was attacking"
    I work for the company building the Paragon...once we figure out a name

  9. #3799
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    Been reading Seligman? Feeling down?
    ? dunno who that is. body keeps the score is by someone else. its been on my list for a while, its about trauma and emotional abuse, which i think we all have suffered from in some way or another. i really like his scientific rather than medical approach to issues. its refreshing to see someone truly working on the human, instead of on the machine. his kinda philosophy is the only true teachers are his patients and he doesn't believe in, or work on one size fits all cures. drugs help some people, hes happy to prescribe them. talk therapy works for some people, he's happy to do that too. nuerohacks work on some people, hes happy to do that too .... but likely we all require more than just one thing, and some combination of work to improve ourselves. its refreshing to see someone in the medical community who isn't thinking linearly or doesnt really have a "standard" cure. we are all different, and our traumas are all different, and so the solutions to our stressors are all going to be different. mostly reading it to gain a common vocabulary to talk with kassy about her past, but can't help reading something like this and not taking something away for yourself too.

    life is good (loved this pic from last night):

    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #3800
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    "He died on that hill even though no one was attacking"
    I work for the company building the Paragon...once we figure out a name

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