Page 216 of 216 FirstFirst ... 116166206214215216
Results 2,151 to 2,160 of 2160

Thread: The OT thread V1

  1. #2151
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt131Steck View Post
    How silly would this rule look in actual real sports?

    If the yankees were scoring too many runs part way trough the season, so MLB forced yankees to use smaller bats and gave them 2 outs a Ining istead of three, but their oppornets were still allowed the larger bat and a extra inning, lol just to make the competitive atmosphere "balanced".

    What if Chicago aftershock players were allowed to shoot 13bps instead of the 10.5 like everyone else? Just because they werent performing well?

    Its a silly concept.
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    I think BoP in paintball looks more like a ROF cap...like we already have. The idea is to equalize the equipment.
    or a salary cap?
    "the fact is, Jack Rice and team make a paintball gun, that works, and works pretty well actually. I think that says everything that needs to be said about the state of paintball gun engineering"

  2. #2152
    Anima PBSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,234
    Or revenue sharing as in the NFL
    And the science gets done, and you make a neat gun, for the people who are still alive.

  3. #2153
    Yea there is salary caps in mlb and nfl and revenue sharing, that that isnt a equivlent here.

    From the explantion earlier, Bop alows better performence specs for teams woth poor finishes and caps or takes away performence from cars winning, not taxing teams who make money or how much they spend. You said they gave the ford gt more aero and boost and etc to allow them to compete better, not allow ford to spend more money.

    So maybe a better analogy would be giving the Dodgers bigger bats then their competitors since they are the worst in the league at scoring and need help balancing the competitve atmosphere.

    I stand by my paintball anology, Aftershock is struggling the most in nxl, the bop would allow their guns have specs to better perform in the spirit of "sport".

    Silly Rule.

    If they want a even playing field, truly, if "sport" is what they cared about, then there would be a model car with aero and engine specs that every racing team would match. But then its mostly about the driver and their strategy, not what the brand porsche and its "engineering", like they would like you to think now. That Porsche is so good, they have to "slow their car" so other teams can keep up, lol.

    Its not about competition, its about the expensive sport car manufactorers showing off their brand and "equipment" for a # of hours worth of advertising and this Bop is designed to keep even the worst of brands from being embarassed and saving face, since they are buying advertising aswell.

  4. #2154
    Insider Pump Scout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin Rapids, WI, USA
    Posts
    730
    God, I wish I could find the picture of Aftershock breaking out six guys at one of the events for one point. I think it was last year, but damned if I can remember where to find the picture.

    I think they even got away with it, sorta, except that they got destroyed during the point.

  5. #2155
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt131Steck View Post
    Yea there is salary caps in mlb and nfl and revenue sharing, that that isnt a equivlent here.

    From the explantion earlier, Bop alows better performence specs for teams woth poor finishes and caps or takes away performence from cars winning, not taxing teams who make money or how much they spend. You said they gave the ford gt more aero and boost and etc to allow them to compete better, not allow ford to spend more money.

    So maybe a better analogy would be giving the Dodgers bigger bats then their competitors since they are the worst in the league at scoring and need help balancing the competitve atmosphere.

    I stand by my paintball anology, Aftershock is struggling the most in nxl, the bop would allow their guns have specs to better perform in the spirit of "sport".

    Silly Rule.

    If they want a even playing field, truly, if "sport" is what they cared about, then there would be a model car with aero and engine specs that every racing team would match. But then its mostly about the driver and their strategy, not what the brand porsche and its "engineering", like they would like you to think now. That Porsche is so good, they have to "slow their car" so other teams can keep up, lol.

    Its not about competition, its about the expensive sport car manufactorers showing off their brand and "equipment" for a # of hours worth of advertising and this Bop is designed to keep even the worst of brands from being embarassed and saving face, since they are buying advertising aswell.
    its not based on race results, its based on the fact that everyone shows up with VERY different cars, because manufactures want to build many different kinds of street cars. BoP takes into account that porsche wants to race a rear engined flat 6, while audi wants to race a mid engined v10, while dodge wants to race a front engined v10, and Mercedes wants to race a front engined, v8 turbo, and ferrari wants to race a mid engined v8 turbo, and corvette wants to race a front engined rear transaxle v8 ......

    everyone wants to race as close to a production spec car as possible, for cost, for marketing, for every reason. but the potential of these cars as race cars is very much different, just based on the market segments those car are designed to fill. the ford GT is a $250,000 car, the corvette is a $50,000 car, ford wants to race the GT, and chevy wants to race the vette. so you handicap the GT a bit, and you bump up the corvette a bit so the cars are capable of similar lap times, and then you race them.

    now the art and skill and science of BoP is imperfect, but that doesn't mean its not necessary. the street cars are so very different, because they all fill different segments of the market, so to race them, you need to balance them. because at this price point in racing, no one is going to custom make a car for it, and as soon as someone did, it would pointless to race against them with anything other than that.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; Today at 10:07 AM.
    "the fact is, Jack Rice and team make a paintball gun, that works, and works pretty well actually. I think that says everything that needs to be said about the state of paintball gun engineering"

  6. #2156
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    God, I wish I could find the picture of Aftershock breaking out six guys at one of the events for one point. I think it was last year, but damned if I can remember where to find the picture.

    I think they even got away with it, sorta, except that they got destroyed during the point.
    This year, in Texas Open. Automatic point for the opponent. At least that's one.

  7. #2157
    Insider Unfated33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    576
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    its not based on race results, its based on the fact that everyone shows up with VERY different cars, because manufactures want to build many different kinds of street cars. BoP takes into account that porsche wants to race a rear engined flat 6, while audi wants to race a mid engined v10, while dodge wants to race a front engined v10, and Mercedes wants to race a front engined, v8 turbo, and ferrari wants to race a mid engined v8 turbo, and corvette wants to race a front engined rear transaxle v8 ......

    everyone wants to race as close to a production spec car as possible, for cost, for marketing, for every reason. but the potential of these cars as race cars is very much different, just based on the market segments those car are designed to fill. the ford GT is a $250,000 car, the corvette is a $50,000 car, ford wants to race the GT, and chevy wants to race the vette. so you handicap the GT a bit, and you bump up the corvette a bit so the cars are capable of similar lap times, and then you race them.

    now the art and skill and science of BoP is imperfect, but that doesn't mean its not necessary. the street cars are so very different, because they all fill different segments of the market, so to race them, you need to balance them. because at this price point in racing, no one is going to custom make a car for it, and as soon as someone did, it would pointless to race against them with anything other than that.
    I really get the sense that more people in this thread are upset about the fact that BoP is imperfect and maybe aren't actually sure how BoP works. You're in a better position to provide more detail and clarity than I am - would you mind to elaborate how it functions and its direct impact?

  8. #2158
    Insider Davros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    418
    Supports Inception Designs
    Josh: I know nothing about racing and have no interest in it at all so I have not understood all the points (like what is BoP) but I really enjoyed the video of the lawnmower racing you posted. Although I think it is only right that both speed tests and races be done on grass. Tall, thick grass.

  9. #2159
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    I really get the sense that more people in this thread are upset about the fact that BoP is imperfect and maybe aren't actually sure how BoP works. You're in a better position to provide more detail and clarity than I am - would you mind to elaborate how it functions and its direct impact?
    different organizations do BoP differently, and have different philosophies in how to apply it.

    i mean its a tricky problem. in a spec league like the one i race in, 3 hp is a huge advantage, and how are you supposed to take these vastly different size, shaped, engine power, downforce, brakes, suspension geometry, fundamental layout, and get them to within a few tenths in potential across a HUGE variety of tracks, track conditions, and race positions.

    like a big car like the Bentley GT3s, are huge, and they have BIG power, not a lot of downforce. so they are really good on the straights and top end. so compared to another car, if the longest straight at some track is 50 feet longer than the straight at a different track, that could mean the difference between the Bentley being down a few tenths, or up a few tenths. combine this with every element of car performance, and weather, and track in the world, and coming up with a BoP set that is reasonably fair is a tough proposition. there are also race conditions to deal with. if you have a high dornforce car like the 650S GT3s chasing a Bentley, the bentley punches a big hole in he air, which is good for drafting behind, but if there is a corner and your car relies on aero to corner well, and your chasing a bentley, your going to get aero push, and have to slow down slightly more for each corner.

    you also have endurance races based on this and you'd prefer to not have races won and lost by unbalanced pit stops, and some cars are more efficient than others, so you try to balance endurance per stint, fuel delivery rate, etc.

    so there is a fuck ton to consider. its a super complex engineering problem. you have things like wing size, end plate size, angle of attack, ride height, fuel tank size, fuel tank orifice, tire size, retrictor plate, boost pressure, max RPM, weight. and these also have interaction effects. weight won't just effect the off corner acceleration, but also the braking distance. limiting wing angle will reduce cornering speeds, but actually increase straight line speed etc etc.

    some organizations will tend to balance based on clean air lap times, some will bias things a bit more closer to race traffic pace. every organization i know of has track specific BoPs, some will do independent testing of the cars, which im a fan of, others will rely on a full data set provided by teams data collections etc etc.

    its a highly complex problem, and its amazing how well they do when you see everyone in all those different cars within a second in qualifying. but someone clever can game the system still. this is highly illegal, but leagues are also begging for teams, so actually getting a punishment that stings is tough. but without an effective punishment, teams will leave and race somewhere else with there money if they don't think BoP gives them a fair shot. last year several porsche teams left IMSA because they felt BoP was making them uncompetative. others chose to stay, but it does happen.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; Today at 01:36 PM.
    "the fact is, Jack Rice and team make a paintball gun, that works, and works pretty well actually. I think that says everything that needs to be said about the state of paintball gun engineering"

  10. #2160
    id also submit that many BOPed classes you look at the results and can see the same car throughout the standings, this is due to the skill of the engineers, the strategy, and the drivers skill.

    the goal of BoP is to make the theoretical speed of each car, at each track, within a gap small enough to keep the racing real, and based on the talent and intelligence of the folks racing. otherwise you are just comparing bank accounts.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; Today at 02:06 PM.
    "the fact is, Jack Rice and team make a paintball gun, that works, and works pretty well actually. I think that says everything that needs to be said about the state of paintball gun engineering"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •