Reply With QuoteApparently the point of BoP is to make the car irrelevant..??...
Its competition, i dont see anything wrong, Ford is pushing for an advantage, what else do you expect from a competitive atmosphere? Is le mans about competiting Motorsport teams trying to beat each other or is it just a commercial for expensive cars and every manufactor wants said cars to perform the same so no feelings get hurt?
Apparently the point of BoP is to make the car irrelevant..??...
Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts
I work for the company building the Paragon
if they want everything perfectly even among cars then they should go to supplying the cars all at the same spec with random draw for who gets what car. Cant win with your current car? Make a better car...
Having watched the internal releases from Ford since August, I don't think there's anyone there that sandbagged in the slightest. Nobody was bragging that they were going to come out of the box and dominate, because they kept their expectations realistic. As their knowledge improved, so did the cars. Not sure I'd call that sandbagging as much as learning the league and getting better quickly. Ford put a ton of resources into the GT program, it paid off, and now they're going to get dinged for it.
Frankly, if Ford walked away from LeMans racing, I couldn't blame them. It's not IROC. Or at least, I didn't get the impression it was supposed to be.
You do realize that in Motorsports, since the begin of it, that people, organizations have always been pushing the envelope and outright cheating to get wins and prestige, especially at places like Le Mans. Hence the old adage, "if you can't beat them, ban them!"Originally Posted by cockerpunk
clearly you guys do not understand what BoP means, does, and functions.
"build a better car" - BoP doesn't let you do that
"its just competition" ..... actually its explicitly illegal in the rule book
and for good reason. if someone cheats BoP and wins unfairly, then there is no point to actually racing, and the millions of dollars these companies are spending is pointless. if the racing isn't fair, they will just take there money, cars, development etc ... and spend it somewhere else. GTE/GT3 racing right now is the best in the world, precisely because of effective and fair BoP. even the perception that BoP isn't fair, leads to everyone pulling out. as i said, its happened before, it will happen again.
cheating BoP = the end of sports car racing. by cheating BoP to win, ford is attack the very sport of car racing, and killing it. its happened before, it will happen again.
yes, actually. the purpose of BoP is to make the cars equally fast. including pit stops.
Last edited by cockerpunk; 06-09-2017 at 09:22 AM.
social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.
Bop racing seems kind of pointless to be honest. I mean more pointless then racing or any sport in general.
If they are all supposed to race the same machine then it is really just an advertising stunt to have different companies in it at all isn't it?
If every driver is required to have the same setup, I get it, it's a pure driver's race but that can't really happen when you have different companies trying to advertise in it, they are going to try and give their guys an advantage to get better advertising on their investment.
You want a driver's race leave the car brands out of it. If you want a brand race give them all a spec they have to meet and let engineering and money help decide the winner.
Trying to shoehorn both into one style seems like it can never work.
Last edited by Florypb505; 06-09-2017 at 11:48 AM.
I'm completely confused about what the alternative to BOP would be - are we talking a balloon vs a model T in Around the World in 80 days? The whole point of BOP is to take cars of different types and create a format where they can compete with each other and make that as close to fair as possible.
How else would you propose to race non-stock cars of different manufacturers? What could a spec possibly look like that wouldn't be so tight as to make the cars stock cars?
And not really germane to the argument, but I find myself annoyed and unsympathetic to the arguments of "this is how it's always been done" and "he/she/they did it, too". Our ethical systems should never be based on measuring right and wrong from the level of wrong that our peers commit. Set a standard for wrong, and when people violate it you call them on it. Cheating in competitions is wrong, full stop.
BoP is a necessary evil. without it, who ever pays more wins more. people think BoP takes the engineering out, but in reality, without BoP, its just an accountants battle. whoever pays more wins more.
the other options are specification list racing like f1 or LMP1, but those are banannas money, and have no linkage to street cars because each company is custom making there cars to a rules sheet. or a spec series where everyone has the same thing.
so if you want to see production based sports car racing, BoP is the only way to do it. and because everyone wants to make different types of production cars, in order to make them race, you have to balance them. otherwise you get super limited production, and it becomes prototype racing pretty fast (see the late 1990s)
Last edited by cockerpunk; 06-09-2017 at 01:35 PM.
social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.
Meh.
Make a long, perfectly flat track. Like, a few miles.
Winner is first to the end.
Limit them to off the show room floor, with rubber upgrades.
Done.
Josh Coray
J4 Paintball
Lead Design
www.j4paintball.com
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