Page 274 of 418 FirstFirst ... 174224264272273274275276284324374 ... LastLast
Results 2,731 to 2,740 of 4172

Thread: The OT thread V1

  1. #2731
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Prove poverty will kill granny.

    Go.

  2. #2732
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    Prove poverty will kill granny.

    Go.
    there is this basic equation: energy in = energy out.

    i mean besides the entire heartless "yes, granny who no longer can work should live in poverty" assumption that you post is based on. i mean jesus. it really is, i don't know how to convince you that you should care about the well being of other people.

    look guys, a solution to society's problems is not "those people shouldn't exist"
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #2733
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Out of curiosity, what is my obligation to your grandma? You're in favor of legislation that defines morality for me?

  4. #2734
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    Out of curiosity, what is my obligation to your grandma? You're in favor of legislation that defines morality for me?
    what else is legislation for?

    again, i don't know how to explain to you, that you should care about the well being of other people. you should.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  5. #2735
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    what else is legislation for?

    again, i don't know how to explain to you, that you should care about the well being of other people. you should.
    Abortion, marriage and pretty much all of the "hot button" debates that will never be solved politically spring from a similar difference in moral position. I don't know how to explain it to you, but you can't debate logically in a moral argument. Better off to not even try to argue against someone's value system.

  6. #2736
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    Abortion, marriage and pretty much all of the "hot button" debates that will never be solved politically spring from a similar difference in moral position. I don't know how to explain it to you, but you can't debate logically in a moral argument. Better off to not even try to argue against someone's value system.
    do you want to live in a country and society that is fine with discarding to poverty and premature death old, sick, economically nonviable people?
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  7. #2737
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    do you want to live in a country and society that is fine with discarding to poverty and premature death old, sick, economically nonviable people?
    Dude, give it up. The counter-position is; do you want to live in a country and society that is fine with discarding to death, unborn children. Your hollow statements aren't going to change someone else's values.

  8. #2738
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    The original mags had a spring, and then a spacer kit also to tune powertube o-ring compression.

    Nope. That was just adjusting the distance from powertube tip. These replaced the copper spring that Classic valves used to come with.

  9. #2739
    Yea I can't see where this debate is heading when neither side is willing to admit that their views are imperfect or even impractical. The system doesn't work as a whole individually bickering about morality on either side of one question just lets the broken system continue to be dis-functional. Start a discussion on how to fix the problem from the start, invest in fixing something now instead of just putting a band-aid on it and kicking the can farther down the road to deal with, until we start doing that nothing will change and this constant moral dilemma will always be here with neither side helping by stating the same things over and over again.

  10. #2740
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,303
    the point of social security was simple: reduce or eliminate elderly poverty. and by any measure, it worked. it worked because its a progressive tax, it is redistribution of wealth, 100%. some folks might think this evil or wrong or bad to admit, but its again, a great idea.
    In my standard issue word vomit I did say the issue isn't not in doing it.

    It was HOW to do it. I think we are agreed, for the most part, that we want some sort of safety net for the wealthiest portion of our population, The Old People. Because some did not or could not save much through life, in part to their own or others mistakes is not really the issue.



    The argument, short of this distraction, would be on how to best utilize that money.

    Because the pay-as-you-go system can only work FOR SO LONG. It is not a sustainable system because you have to tax more and more to cover it, and that is your position - tax more going into it because right now more is going out of it than is coming in.

    Our current system, however you want to name it, doesn't do any investing. It is a pass though, or Virtual Investment program that doesn't hold more than an IOU, and has a totally piss poor 'return' for money it. It is a tax that at the moment, without putting more money in from other taxes, that doesn't cover the outlay. It is a promise from current generations to help out prior generations that will only last for a finite period as ran, becoming insolvent in the near future (decades, just barely.)

    Even if the system was 'uncapped' it would still become insolvent. Just later. And would 'return' less than what is going in. $100,000 paid in results in a $80,000k payout.

    The modifications proposed is just taxing more and giving less back, for a longer period of time. The total Liabilities for this entitlement though is underpaid by $34 TRILLION.

    Given the pay-as-you-go format, this will always be the result, and no matter how you charge 'the bad wealthy people' extra, there isn't enough money there for long.

    And right now, even if solvent at the moment, the money promised to me will not be paid. It would do better just going into a bank account and getting no interest than the SS System. Uncapped or not.

    Switching to even a 50/50 program, vs Uncapped results in:

    No issue with insolvency.

    Pay outs, or actual returns that are significantly higher than SS is or will ever be

    Money invested stays in the market, increasing the GDP in total (nations has between 50% and 100% of their GDP in this fund, basically doubling national GDP.)

    No new taxes needed, in fact, they could be lowered to the 9 or 10% national average for other nations and still return more.

    Room to roll HSA/HDHP into the process to provide everyone with catastrophic care.


    ______________________

    It seems like a no-brainer. There is some risk, yes. Historically though a moderate market can return several times what SS 'promises' as a 'return'. When ran against the S&P500, even just mutual funds, or bonds, a 50/50 system does remarkably better.

    For the same money in, one option is very clearly a better choice.

    ______________________

    So, no, the argument is whither you want granny to have an 80% return on her SS money put in, or 300% to 600% return on her money into SS.

    To reply 'You want PEOPLE TO DIE!' means you have really lost the argument and have no position, so full speed ahead on the emotional, non-rational position.

    Which seems really silly. It should be obvious I want Granny to have a lot more money and I think that would benefit her.

    Why don't you?
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design
    www.j4paintball.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •