The OT thread V1

[cockerpunk]

yikes, pushing snow out of the way with my door to get out of the miata was a bit extreme. still made it home!

[Pump Scout]

I've been dying to get my hands on a Fiesta ST. Unfortunately we don't move enough new Fiestas to interest the owner in biting on getting one. On top of that, he lost his mind when we picked up a Focus ST used at auction. Same response when we'd gotten a WRX. Problem with those cars around here is that they attract kids who can't buy them. We have the same problem with jacked up big tired diesel Rams.

[cockerpunk]

pics up from last weeks event:

miata is always the answer:



late apex line (meep meep):



i can legitimatly do surgery with the front inside wheel of this car:





STUDZ:

[AndrewTheWookie]

I posted this in the KP1 thread because it came up, but I'll copy it here too. I got tired of Photobucket graveyards in old forum posts so I found an extension that bypasses that shit and all Photobucket pictures show up normally.

Firefox - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...otobucket-fix/
Chrome - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...=1516767631313

Passing this along in case anyone wants to try it out.

[cockerpunk]

man putting together some videos for a talk im giving at a Nerd Out get together about race car driving.

and wow i was terrible. watching some of these old videos i am like "jesus"

thankfully:

[cockerpunk]

here is an OT conversation .... non-monogamy.

i've done this before on occasion, but its never worked out. on its face value its based on things i agree with, that its pretty much an insane notion that one person is going to be your fulfilling sexual partner, your life partner, your roommate, a great parent to your kids, good with money, good to travel with, and they are going to be the this way for 40+ years. that's a pretty insane job really. I have lived like that and its actually pretty nice for a lot of reasons, as long as jealousy isn't something that defines you. if you are confident in your relationship, sex on the side, don't really care about. the two non-monogamous relationships i was in, both ended for other reasons.

that was my 20s though, when i mostly dated under the though process "if it happens, it happens" and when you date with that intent ... it doesn't happen. changing gears 1.5 or 2 years into a relationship from "hey this is fun lets keep doing it" to "lets move in and build a life together" is a tough gear change.

So i've been dating this time around with a lot more intent. and upfront about that intent. i intend to find a life partner.

So, i meet this amazing woman. won't go into too many details, but its insane. like fucking insane. and i've dated a lot of people in my life, and this one is nuts, and im crazy into it. like, i should not be, but i am so am. when we are together its just mindblowing, and im not talking about the sex.

she is non-monogamous.

on its face, i don't think these things are mutually exclusive. dating before commitment already is non-monogamous. and she said today she is dating two other people, which, i don't have a problem with. i have nothing to be insecure about, or jealous of. she never ignores me, spending time together is awesome, shes super interesting and she likes me a crazy amount to.

So, obviously we need to talk more about expectations and needs and wants, but im having a hard time compromising needing that intention, with polyamory. I hinted the last time we talked that I would probably need to be her primary, but didn't demand or confront her over it. there is plenty of time, pushing things at this point is a bad plan. pushing things in general is a bad plan.

can i compromise poly life, with the need for intention? I'm not sure.

anyone else have any experience with this? to clarify my situation, i am also currently dating/sexually active with multiple people as well.

[Lurker27]

If part of what you mean by intention is that you believe you'll have kids, that's the most important thing to get on the same page, IMO. A good friend of mine (actually officiated my wedding) had to break off a happy relationship because long term he does not want kids; she did.

Certainly you can raise kids as single parents and provide a stable and loving home outside of the 1950s conceit of the nuclear family, it's just an indelible link in a way that cohabitation and marriage aren't.

As for the rest of it, I don't think you'll know until you try. But, I hope you found your person and it all works out (even if it isn't this one). It's pretty great. (Sorry Steve, this one isn't about you <3)

Probably my favorite book is "I am a Strange Loop" by Douglas Hofstadter (Also wrote Godel, Escher, Bach, but Strange Loop is a far more distilled and accessible version). In it, he talks about how one of the things about the brain being a simulation engine (all your experiences are really the best-correlated simulation to your percepts, after all) is that when you spend enough time with a person, you get better at empathizing with them. He suggests that there exists a level beyond empathy (which would be a simple mapping of circumstance onto your own mirrored self), that involves a true (recursive) simulation of your partner's thought processes. Anecdotally, I can tell you that this feels true.

[cockerpunk]

If part of what you mean by intention is that you believe you'll have kids, that's the most important thing to get on the same page, IMO. A good friend of mine (actually officiated my wedding) had to break off a happy relationship because long term he does not want kids; she did.

Certainly you can raise kids as single parents and provide a stable and loving home outside of the 1950s conceit of the nuclear family, it's just an indelible link in a way that cohabitation and marriage aren't.

As for the rest of it, I don't think you'll know until you try. But, I hope you found your person and it all works out (even if it isn't this one). It's pretty great. (Sorry Steve, this one isn't about you <3)

Probably my favorite book is "I am a Strange Loop" by Douglas Hofstadter (Also wrote Godel, Escher, Bach, but Strange Loop is a far more distilled and accessible version). In it, he talks about how one of the things about the brain being a simulation engine (all your experiences are really the best-correlated simulation to your percepts, after all) is that when you spend enough time with a person, you get better at empathizing with them. He suggests that there exists a level beyond empathy (which would be a simple mapping of circumstance onto your own mirrored self), that involves a true (recursive) simulation of your partner's thought processes. Anecdotally, I can tell you that this feels true.

I do not intend to have children, she is on the fence at best, leaning no currently. so that isn't a big issue right now.

I think its more compromising the intention to escalate the relationship through time, building a life, if the distinction (and commitment) of a primary isn't granted. I think im boiling down to, im fine with non-monogamy with her provided we are the primary relationship. i am not ok with simply being one on an equal level with many. i mean i would be, if i was in this camp from my 20s of just like "this is awesome, lets just keep this going" type thing, it would actually be an advantage in that case. but i am no longer in that camp, its time to build a life with someone, and that means the level of commitment and trust and whatnot needs to be higher than one of several equally statused partners.

the more i see her, the better my case can be for that. our relationship is young, letting it play out is better than pushing.

[JimBobFett]

JMO, but "on its face value its based on things i agree with, that its pretty much an insane notion that one person is going to be your fulfilling sexual partner, your life partner, your roommate, a great parent to your kids, good with money, good to travel with, and they are going to be the this way for 40+ years. that's a pretty insane job really."

I don't think its insane at all. All those roles you list; non-monogamy really only solves the 'fulfilling sexual partner' one, you know? At least how you seem to present it. Ignore that aspect, and it seems you are still looking for all the other things because you want a partner to live with, share economic goals, and raise kids. So if its just the romance or sex that seems hard to maintain, work on it. That seems to be the lost art in this age... figuring out how to balance the secure, trusted, and familiar with the new, risky, and unfamiliar with just one person. However, it IS possible with the right person and the right skills. Some things about people change over time, and other things don't... work together to manage what you both hope for and yeah, the person you know today could be someone totally different in the years to come.

I've come face to face with Poly in my own life, and ended up going head to head with a few of the authors who write the books about it. What I have noticed is that Poly is really about compartmentalizing relationships with other people. Research studies from three Universities found that too. What I found totally insane is this "blue pill" mentality of people constantly telling themselves a reality (and to each other in the usually incestuous poly communities) exists that requires blindfolding your perception and really drinking the kool-ade. There are commonly used slogans, euphemisms, and analogies used to really sell the idea, making it seem 'progressive', more 'natural', or 'more enlightened'. This seems to have resulted in a sort of 'mythology'. The thing is, many of the points used to sell one aspect are either contradictions with something else to sell another idea, or the idea used to sell one thing would contradict something else. Its like a 'pick and choose' what you want to tell other people sales pitch. But after doing the reading and interacting, the idea exchange really resulted in a realization that there are many myths used to explain or sell polyamory that are just plain bullshit. They are things that "sound good" but aren't "good & sound", but we are used to the "good sounding" things because we want to believe things like "love is infinite". Those type of beliefs make us feel good about ourselves, but fundamentally aren't true. The whole "monogamy is unrealistic now because it lasts so long" argument is just more of that kool-ade. The whole idea that jealousy is some inferior emotion or personal problem that you should rise above is also bull. Jealousy may be a bad thing and all that, but it exists for a reason. Don't let it define you, sure... but having a fear of possible changes that may be out of your control isn't unwise. We like to think that we can control our thoughts like a computer or control how our attractions will influence us or others... but we can't control lots of that stuff easily.

No blinders for me, thank you.

[cockerpunk]

JMO, but "on its face value its based on things i agree with, that its pretty much an insane notion that one person is going to be your fulfilling sexual partner, your life partner, your roommate, a great parent to your kids, good with money, good to travel with, and they are going to be the this way for 40+ years. that's a pretty insane job really."

I don't think its insane at all. All those roles you list; non-monogamy really only solves the 'fulfilling sexual partner' one, you know? At least how you seem to present it. Ignore that aspect, and it seems you are still looking for all the other things because you want a partner to live with, share economic goals, and raise kids. So if its just the romance or sex that seems hard to maintain, work on it. That seems to be the lost art in this age... figuring out how to balance the secure, trusted, and familiar with the new, risky, and unfamiliar with just one person. However, it IS possible with the right person and the right skills. Some things about people change over time, and other things don't... work together to manage what you both hope for and yeah, the person you know today could be someone totally different in the years to come.

I've come face to face with Poly in my own life, and ended up going head to head with a few of the authors who write the books about it. What I have noticed is that Poly is really about compartmentalizing relationships with other people. Research studies from three Universities found that too. What I found totally insane is this "blue pill" mentality of people constantly telling themselves a reality (and to each other in the usually incestuous poly communities) exists that requires blindfolding your perception and really drinking the kool-ade. There are commonly used slogans, euphemisms, and analogies used to really sell the idea, making it seem 'progressive', more 'natural', or 'more enlightened'. This seems to have resulted in a sort of 'mythology'. The thing is, many of the points used to sell one aspect are either contradictions with something else to sell another idea, or the idea used to sell one thing would contradict something else. Its like a 'pick and choose' what you want to tell other people sales pitch. But after doing the reading and interacting, the idea exchange really resulted in a realization that there are many myths used to explain or sell polyamory that are just plain bullshit. They are things that "sound good" but aren't "good & sound", but we are used to the "good sounding" things because we want to believe things like "love is infinite". Those type of beliefs make us feel good about ourselves, but fundamentally aren't true. The whole "monogamy is unrealistic now because it lasts so long" argument is just more of that kool-ade. The whole idea that jealousy is some inferior emotion or personal problem that you should rise above is also bull. Jealousy may be a bad thing and all that, but it exists for a reason. Don't let it define you, sure... but having a fear of possible changes that may be out of your control isn't unwise. We like to think that we can control our thoughts like a computer or control how our attractions will influence us or others... but we can't control lots of that stuff easily.

No blinders for me, thank you.

id actually agree with much of what you wrote in terms of compartmentalizing relationships, that is the ultimate fear i have. that is my experience too, the sex isn't the issue, the trusting and intimacy of a normal relationship doesn't extend fully, and thats what causes problems. i would not describe poly as more enlightened or anything like that, but i do accept that just because something is tradition, doesn't inherently make it correct, nor the only way to do something. we are all different people, and we need and want different things, my main criticism of traditionalism is that it forces human beings into a box just like everyone else, and that isn't realistic either. what i respond to and need in my life is not what PBjosh needs or responds to in life, and thus relationships for example. to think that one relationship model is ideal for both of us, is rather insane.

but i would disagree with your assessment that the nearly impossible task of modern monogamous marriage isn't. tradition is not on your side either in that argument. we are living to double our age 150 years ago, with far more complex social and societal structures, and we have to deal with the new realities and stresses of the modern world. marriage 150 years ago and before was not at all in any way the same social contract it is today, and is basically not comparable. the data bears out the difficulty of modern marriage, and as anyone who has been married a long time will tell you, there are entire decades often that were shitty. we can do better.

and i would also argue that non-monogamy solves much more than just the sexual component. normal human beings don't just randomly bump into each other and fuck. we meet new people our entire lives, some interest us, some don't, and for more than a variety of reasons. and thats ok, its normal, and to make it taboo makes it unhealthy. what i experienced in my last open relationship was that the mental freedom was far nicer than the actual mechanical sexual feeling. the mental freedom from the taboo of attraction outside the relationship. i hardly ever acted on it, but is not creating it as a taboo to be fetishized, it became a non-issue. and frankly, every-time i did seek out a relationship outside my primary, i was like "eh, i like her better" and went back home to my primary. i think this line can be summed by "the grass isn't greener, and when you actually remind yourself of that, like actually experience it, the taboo is exposed for the bullshit it is"

idk, i've had a variety of experiences in this area. its interesting, as most of you know i am pretty intellectually promiscuous, as well as pretty promiscuous sexually, im just pretty promiscuous all round and do whatever i kinda want. and i think the only actual truth in the area, is what is ok and what feels right to the folks involved. that rests the question squarely on me. what am i ok with with the new goals i have today?