The OT thread V1

[Unfated33]

So then what you consent to is called....?

[cockerpunk]

So then what you consent to is called....?

a relationship.

none of this has to do with poly, it has to do with irony's claim that relationships are based on rules.

they arnt, or at least good ones (my opinion) arnt. they are based on consent. they are based on wanting to be together, not the punishment of not being together.

if you want to say "rules" are some kind of communication method, or something like that ... thats not accurate, but you've hinted at something like that in several posts. i guess thats fine if thats how you want to translate things, but the word rules just isn't accurate.

[ironyusa]

You are consenting to the rule that you create for yourself to not hurt her and she makes the rule on what hurts. In either case, you're both in agreement that you won't do "x" because it hurts her. Mutually understood = rule. It becomes part of your relational precepts. Not all rules have to be as strict as "call me each night at 8:00pm or else." Yeah, that'd be unbearable.

Your relationship with the older lady failed because you lacked intimacy. That is, you lacked the communication necessary to modify/ change the expected behaviors. To me, you're pulling using the term "consent" and trying to replace "intimacy." At either rate, if you hate the term "rules" because it feels rigid it's not really like that... It's all built on respect anyway and if you don't respect your partner, it's over before it begins. If the person sucks or is controlling/ posessive, whatever, then the relational precepts will suck. That's not because there's a better type of relationship dynamic. It's because your partner sucks/ is incompatible.

[cockerpunk]

its funny because irony also conflates commitment and sexual fidelity in every post/statment

im committed to be job, that says nothing about my sexual practices.

im committed to my family, again, that says nothing about sexual practices.

im committed to my friends, and that says nothing about my sexual practices.

[cockerpunk]

You are consenting to the rule that you create for yourself to not hurt her and she makes the rule on what hurts. In either case, you're both in agreement that you won't do "x" because it hurts her. Mutually understood = rule. It becomes part of your relational precepts. Not all rules have to be as strict as "call me each night at 8:00pm or else." Yeah, that'd be unbearable.

Your relationship with the older lady failed because you lacked intimacy. That is, you lacked the communication necessary to modify/ change the expected behaviors. To me, you're pulling using the term "consent" and trying to replace "intimacy." At either rate, if you hate the term "rules" because it feels rigid it's not really like that... It's all built on respect anyway and if you don't respect your partner, it's over before it begins. If the person sucks or is controlling/ posessive, whatever, then the relational precepts will suck. That's not because there's a better type of relationship dynamic. It's because your partner sucks/ is incompatible.

interesting. i also wouldn't hope to diagnosis why a 3 year relationship failed based on a single story/argument. but what can i say, there you just went and did it. you are wrong, but don't let that stop you from pontificating on the meaningfulness of everyone else's relationships.

again, if you want to use the term "rule" to be some kind code word for communication, thats not really accurate. i get it, but its just not. rules are pretty explicit, rigid, things, and they come with punishments. and that makes them threats, and threats are no way to create commitment or intimacy.

[ironyusa]

You're wrong again, Gordon. I didn't say sexual fidelity in my last post or most of the ones preceding it. I am not conflating terms. I have been pretty clear on trying to get YOU to use terms consistently/ correctly. You're taking bits and pieces from all over the place and none of it is a coherent discussion about a relationship. You keep trying to use your own terms and haven't provided credible published documents that use your terms. Even the lady you linked a TED to uses the correct terms. You don't. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...y-relationship << I'm committed to those rules and they don't seem overbearing OR SEXUAL.


No they're not, Gordon. You have created a definition of "rules" that doesn't exist. Not once did I say rule = communication. Rather that intimacy is built on communication. A relationship is built on respect for the other person's rules (or if you prefer "precepts.") You've completely lost your grip on anything resembling a point.

You used an example that highlighted an issue. It's a proper diagnoses of the example.

[cockerpunk]

You're wrong again, Gordon. I didn't say sexual fidelity in my last post or most of the ones preceding it. I am not conflating terms. I have been pretty clear on trying to get YOU to use terms consistently/ correctly. You're taking bits and pieces from all over the place and none of it is a coherent discussion about a relationship. You keep trying to use your own terms and haven't provided credible published documents that use your terms. Even the lady you linked a TED to uses the correct terms. You don't. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...y-relationship << I'm committed to those rules and they don't seem overbearing.


No they're not, Gordon. You have created a definition of "rules" that doesn't exist. Not once did I say rule = communication. Rather that intimacy is built on communication. A relationship is built on respect for the other person's rules (or if you prefer "precepts.") You've completely lost your grip on anything resembling a point.

You used an example that highlighted an issue. It's a proper diagnoses of the example.

this isn't really a response.

rule:

rule
ro*ol/Submit
noun
noun: rule; plural noun: rules; noun: Rules
1.
one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere.
"the rules of the game were understood"
synonyms: regulation, ruling, directive, order, act, law, statute, edict, canon, mandate, command, dictate, decree, fiat, injunction, commandment, stipulation, requirement, guideline, direction; formalordinance
"health and safety rules"
a principle that operates within a particular sphere of knowledge, describing or prescribing what is possible or allowable.
"the rules of grammar"
synonyms: precept, principle, standard, axiom, truth, maxim
"moderation is the golden rule"
a code of practice and discipline for a religious order or community.
"the Rule of St. Benedict"
control of or dominion over an area or people.
"the revolution brought an end to British rule"
synonyms: control, jurisdiction, command, power, dominion; More
the normal or customary state of things.
noun: the rule
"such accidents are the exception rather than the rule"
synonyms: procedure, practice, protocol, convention, norm, routine, custom, habit, wont; formalpraxis
"lateness was the general rule"
2.
a strip of wood or other rigid material used for measuring length or marking straight lines; a ruler.
a thin printed line or dash, generally used to separate headings, columns, or sections of text.
3.
AUSTRALIAN
short for Australian Rules (football).
LAW
an order made by a judge or court with reference to a particular case only.
verb
verb: rule; 3rd person present: rules; past tense: ruled; past participle: ruled; gerund or present participle: ruling
1.
exercise ultimate power or authority over (an area and its people).
"Latin America today is ruled by elected politicians"
synonyms: govern, preside over, control, lead, dominate, run, head, administer, manage More
(of a feeling) have a powerful and restricting influence on (a person's life).
"her whole life seemed to be ruled by fear"
be a dominant or powerful factor or force.
"the black market rules supreme"
synonyms: prevail, predominate, be the order of the day, reign supreme; formalobtain
"chaos ruled"
pronounce authoritatively and legally to be the case.
"a federal court ruled that he was unfairly dismissed from his job"
synonyms: decree, order, pronounce, judge, adjudge, ordain; More
ASTROLOGY
(of a planet) have a particular influence over (a sign of the zodiac, house, aspect of life, etc.).
2.
make parallel lines across (paper).
"a sheet of ruled paper"

consent:

oun
noun: consent; plural noun: consents
1.
permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.
"no change may be made without the consent of all the partners"
synonyms: agreement, assent, acceptance, approval, approbation; More
antonyms: dissent
verb
verb: consent; 3rd person present: consents; past tense: consented; past participle: consented; gerund or present participle: consenting
1.
give permission for something to happen.
"he consented to a search by a detective"
synonyms: agree to, assent to, yield to, give in to, submit to; More
antonyms: forbid
agree to do something.
"he had consented to serve on the panel"

a rule is something you impose on someone else. consent is joining or allowing yourself into something, freely. its right there in the fucking dictionary.

not sure how i can use these terms more accurately.

[ironyusa]

You read the dictionary and still don't get it. The 2 are not exclusive, but rather complimentary terms.

Consent = agree to something
Rule = the something you agree to

Lol, highlighting bits and pieces after my response suggested you were taking bits and pieces out of context. You lose.

[cockerpunk]

You read the dictionary and still don't get it. The 2 are not exclusive, but rather complimentary terms.

Consent = agree to something
Rule = the something you agree to

Lol, highlighting bits and pieces after my response suggested you were taking bits and pieces out of context. You lose.

so, that means that the basis for all relationships (even ones with rules) ... is consent. the basis of all relationships isn't rules ... its consent.

k, thats exactly what i've been saying for 3 pages.

[ironyusa]

All relationships have rules, Gordon. You're the one trying to dodge that. Once you accept that fact, then we can correct the next term you're conflating. Consent is irrelevant. WHY you consent is the basis of all relationships.