PE should make a cure style cocker bolt

[Florypb505]

I think if it just Compensated dwell slightly based on the pressure that is in the firing chamber will do a good amount in helping the consistency.

I mean some regs are pretty good with consistency how good are we trying to get?

On fresh good quality paint with a nicely tuned gun you can keep +- 5fps fairly well even better some times on single shots. If a gun could just compensate by adding more dwell while rapid firing then I think it would even out a stream better as well.

[ironyusa]

The precision required to do that real time and electronically will mean much higher expense. Hall effects can do some, but a valve dynamic not dependant on the downstream environment do it better mechanically IMO. If the paragon (just an example) was tuned to a razor edge it could sense the leakage around the ball (via pressure peak) and would hold the valve open longer... it COULD do that easily, but then things like lube and seal conditions slow that response. In engineering there's a trade-off and unfortunately theoretically possible isn't even really desirable. People want a marker primarily as a utility (proven by PE's success) and all other attributes play second fiddle. Said another way, a simple, reliable marker that is reasonably efficient, comfortable and most importantly, aesthetically pleasing will be competitive. All the other stuff is expensive without return. That's just how I see it...

[Lurker27]

Any compensation needs to be mechanical to have any shot in hell of increased consistency. If you take a class on controls theory you will see how destructive time delay terms are on your ability to close the control loop of a system. I'm surprised non compensating dump spools are consistent as they are, frankly (though I think the vast majority of users think their gun more consistent than it is)

[Unfated33]

Any compensation needs to be mechanical to have any shot in hell of increased consistency.

I agree with this completely.

As far as dump spool consistency, my dump spool is significantly less consistent (Crossover, probably +/-10fps at best) than my stacked tube blow back (Azodin KD, probably less than +/-5fps). My anecdote makes me inclined to believe it, though empirical testing would be nice.

[ironyusa]

That's what I was kind of getting at, Lurker. Thing is that in order to make the mechanical system "sensitive" enough to compensate quickly you'll typically sacrifice robustness . In order to mechanically sense force from pressure at a level required for real time adjustment you'll be dang sensitive to friction and other variables. I don't like it. I'd personally rather over compensate and bank on the end user and environmental conditions varying. Thus, I accept the inherent variation.

[cockerpunk]

though i think the vast majority of users think their gun more consistent than it is

qft

when you start chronoing every shot for a whole afternoon, it becomes clear that holy smokes, guns are actually really inconsistent. +/- 10 fps to 3 sigma is GOOD for real world consistency.

[tyronejk]

Is the consistency issue a real issue? Iirc somebody did the math and found that a 5 fps drop in velocity resulted in a 2 inch drop of the hit on a target. Or some numbers of similar magnitude.

[y0da900]

Is the consistency issue a real issue? Iirc somebody did the math and found that a 5 fps drop in velocity resulted in a 2 inch drop of the hit on a target. Or some numbers of similar magnitude.

Consistency lets you shoot more closely to allowable max velocity without fear of going over.

[Lurker27]

Tightening the range of consistency allows for higher velocities without incurring penalties. I'll need to actually do the drag calculation to tell you what the effective range boost might be. Functionally, a few percent in energy delivered to your target.

The inherent inaccuracy of spheres generally seems to have a larger impact on precision than velocity consistency.

Also, unless we are talking about perfect compensation, it is fallacious to suggest an inherent lack of robusticity. The gsl is a good example and I would bet dollars to donuts jack would tell you the gsl is measurably more consistent than a geo2.

[ironyusa]

It adds an extra seal at minimum, but I was talking about "perfect" compensation. The closer to it you try to get to a razor tuning the further from you get from reliability.

Even still, most every design is still bolt speed dependant. Part of why I really like the GTEK is the repeatability of the bolt speed.