View Poll Results: should PE make cure style bolts for older guns?

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Thread: PE should make a cure style cocker bolt

  1. #1

    PE should make a cure style cocker bolt

    pipe dream i know. low number production, lots of variants, reduces demand for new guns etc.

    but honestly, i think the IP on cure style bolt features holds back more modification, upgrading, and updating of old school guns more than anything else.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  2. #2
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    Is stack clipping a huge problem? I thought the top bore of autocockers is under 11/16. A quick Google suggests aka bolts are like .683 od.

    Egos only needed the cure bolt because they used an oversize breech, even larger than the Intimidator that was based on Spyder spec.

    I'm sure PE has a good reason for oversize breech, probably guards against jamming swollen paint.
    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  3. #3
    The feedback being slightly offset makes that second ball in pe guns drop a little lower then every other gun as well as the huge chamber size

  4. #4
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    In reality the bore on the stacked tube guns could probably be reduced now, what with the trending size of paint.

    It was oversized originally in an attempt to reduce inconsistency due to tight fitting balls in the breech area.

    Our single tube guns have always had a smaller breech size.

    Gordon, the main issue for any type of "Cure" design on any gun is more to do with the stroke length of the bolt that other manufacturers use. Almost everyone still uses a 25.4mm stroke. We use more like a 28mm stroke on almost all our guns to give us more leeway in the design of the head of the bolt and still get a good seal at the front of the breech. No idea why other manufacturers don't do this. Maybe I'm the dumb one?
    Dear boy, I work at Planet Eclipse, don't you know..

  5. #5
    We used to try and make as short a stroke for the bolt as possible to help with cycle speed as part of the arms race. That has been less of an issue lately and bolt stroke gets longer as needed to help with the bolt design/sealing/stack handling.

    Looking into a new cocker full body bolt now and that is part of the design, I may end up having to do a ram with a slightly longer stroke also, but not certain yet if that is necessary.

    I won't be copying the cure bolt though, as I was making bolts the same way for Intimidators back in 2003-2004 (funny note Rocky from the Naughty Dogs called me when the cure bolt came out to swear blind that no-one had seen the prototype bolt he had in his gun and it wasn't his bolt that PE had gotten hold of to copy). I don't believe there was any copying going on. It was a natural development.

    I think people had been modifying the face of bolts to help with the second ball issue before that though.

    The only reason Bob didn't do it on the intimidators after I showed him? He couldn't hand grind a bolt to match what I did and didn't believe it made any difference... everyone else shooting them did though... Oh and Rocky's gun... also had QEV's on the ram, including one special straight QEV I designed to make it fit the current intimidators at the time. I digress though

  6. #6
    yeah jack, i've noticed the same thing in putting cure features into guns/bolts since, you run out of space really really fast. thus a more integrated solution. cockers the ram length is easily adjusted...

    the gun arms race was dumb, i never understood egos and why they existed until the 10. why QEV a timmy? its just a silly goal in and of itself. i was telling anyone and everyone who would listen in that area that the guns arms race was dumb and pointless. and it was even sillier than when PE would make this speed demon gun, and then every upgrade for it would make it slower. so why QEV the thing in the first place if your just going to slow it down later with some other restriction? the first PE gun that ever actually made sense to me from a dynamics standpoint was the 10. i remember telling jack that in like 2008-2009, and then the 10 came out and i was like, ah, it all makes sense now. not claiming to have invented or planted that idea, obviously jack also came to the same conclusion.

    anyway, as i said, ram length, quite easy to change on a cocker ....
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  7. #7
    The arms race was how people judged and bought guns. It made a huge difference in sales. May be it was dumb to you, but it put a lot of money into Bob Long's and Gino's pockets when his guns were seen as the fastest (I won't get into all the cheating that went along with that, Bob was, and is, absolute horrendous on that front).

    When the NXL first happened the faster guns were a big advantage. To be actually shooting 26+bps off the break v's 18ish...

    I do believe the work to make guns and loaders gentler on paint was more important, but the consumer doesn't. Again tough to educate people. It did help the Axe sell though... The Luxe is one of the hardest guns on paint that I have tested and yet they are still seen as top end and sell.

  8. #8
    well simon those gun speeds don't actually matter either cause they were all cheating anyway. no one is walking on a legal trigger at 18, much less 26+. as you even pointed out. but that goes back to an even bigger engineering failure in paintball than the arms race in the first place ... that no one wanted to, or cared enough, to actually build something reasonable to insure legality of the equipment (i know, the farce called the robot lol) and thus the strategy and technology based on exploiting such a glaringly stupid hole.

    case and point why I've made the career decisions i have. being smarter in the paintball business doesn't actually matter that much.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #9
    Insider AndrewTheWookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    The Luxe is one of the hardest guns on paint that I have tested and yet they are still seen as top end and sell.
    It's because people can't dissociate the sound of the valve with the handling of the paint. One of my friends swears up and down about how the Luxe can handle anything because "just listen to how soft it shoots, that baby will shoot anything."
    I don't know, fly casual

  10. #10
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    that no one wanted to, or cared enough, to actually build something reasonable to insure legality of the equipment (i know, the farce called the robot lol) and thus the strategy and technology based on exploiting such a glaringly stupid hole.
    Well, that begs the question: why did we decide on one trigger pull = one shot as the threshold for legality, when there hasn't been a simple way to enforce it short of checking high-speed film on players? The answer: intuitively it makes sense since that's the definition of semi-auto, but since it can't be enforced across the board it was perhaps not a well thought-out choice.

    I have come to believe true semi-auto (not to trigger anyone) to be a dead-end, but there's no reason to call the issue dead: Is there a solution sufficiently better than ramping to make the change worthwhile?

    Maybe we should step back, to better focus: What exactly are the problems with completely unregulated markers?
    Last edited by PBSteve; 01-14-2016 at 07:12 PM.
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