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Thread: Gametype Idea Brainstorming for RDIF

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    Insider Davros's Avatar
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    Gametype Idea Brainstorming for RDIF

    So I have an RFID reader and six 3cm discs that are RF ID tags. I am thinking about things to do with them for a game in July that will be the silver anniversary game for the oldest field in the province (SNL Paintball) and by a very close second place second oldest in the region. Eventually I will want to come up with RF ID ideas for a themed all day scenario event, but right now I am focused just on this game which will be a celebratory game day. It will be a big game, but not a scenario event. Games that are not ordinary and are more elaborate than normal but not a story-arc driven scenario. Gametypes, not missions. Again, I would love to figure out how RF ID tags could enhance scenario games sometime though.

    Was hoping if I throw out an idea or two people commenting on it will bringing about a better idea.

    The field has an village with many buildings at the bottom of a hill. The hill has a big long trench and then further up the woods of the hill are some small trenches.

    One idea I had was to assign different point values to the tags (which would put on or into something else to make them easier to carry and see) but not label them. The players would be fighting for them not knowing if this one was worth very little or enough to win the game. To get the points you must obtain the tag and scan it in the reader. This adds another gameplay consideration -your team will want to control access to the scanner.

    Two variations occur to me. First is a race to type of game, first team to whatever number of points wins. The second is a timed event. Whichever team has the most points after say 20 minutes wins.

    At first I was thinking of a small screen displaying a reading when one scans the tag showing how many points you got for it. (Maybe not even a screen but just an LED number display.) Then I thought make it a secret until the end of the game, then announce who won after reading scores from the log.

    In order to encourage planning beforehand and movement on the field, I was planning on making the locations of the tags well known. Would tell the team captains beforehand and I would display them in obvious places. Perhaps I might mount them on top of 1 metre tall poles or something. Was thinking of painting short, wooden dowels a bright colour and attaching the tags to the top of the dowels.

    I have some plexigass lying around I can use to protect a screen. Also I intend to 3D print a protective case for the reader. All the electronics will be mounted against a hit so shots can not come from one direction. Also plan on mounting the scanner horizontally to further reduce chances of a direct hit.

    So any constructive comments to build off this or any new ideas for using the tags would be appreciated. Also general comments on whether it sounds like it would be an interesting game to play or not also welcome.

    I just noticed that I typed "RDIF" and not "RFID". Oops.
    Last edited by Davros; 01-19-2017 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Pointing out my own embarassing typos.

  2. #2
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    Saw this a few days ago and never responded. I like your thinking, so this is quite different

    What about using the tags as VIP markers? Only certain players get them, but they can be used for things. So maybe one allows that player to "unlock" a certain door, or "capture" a certain point that others can't. Or maybe another allows the possessing player to "free" prisoners (ie. respawn a deadbox) when they swipe it over a certain spot. This would probably require multiple readers with different tags activating different ones.

    Or do what one league here did with balls and a bucket, and have scoring handled by taking tags to a scanner in the middle of the field - each key player starting with a tag and being able to recycle each time (or hand their tag to another player that's starting)

    I dunno, lots of possibilities. Could have a mixture of all the above.
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    Insider Davros's Avatar
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    vijil, thanks for replying to the post. I was worried no one said anything because it was too terrible to even comment on.

    I really love your jailed spawn idea. Make the RFID tags keys for releasing respawning players is a great idea. Issue a limited number, but a bunch to each team and have it so when all key carrying players are out they are allowed to use the key while in the respawn area. Players do not sit out a whole game but how often you respawn depends on teamwork. Might have to add a rule or two such as key holders cannot enter and leave but cannot just stand by the jail area the whole game. (Key holders cannot stand still within 5 metres of the jail perhaps.)

    It would necessitate buying a second reader but I am OK with that, although I have yet to find a good power source for my reader. (I need a USB hub powered, but mobile. Would love to find a USB HUB with a built in power pack.) Although it does make me think it might be interesting to have one team spawn in waves, every 5 minutes or so and have the other team have keys, but only a few. If all the key holders get shot than they re-spawn after say 8 minutes. Just thinking out loud, the specifics would need adjustment.

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    I've been trying to think of similar projects; one I had that can incorporate RFID tags


    • Have multiple stations around play area (each station having 2 led's and two buttons, one for each team). Holding a button for 1.5-3 seconds turns the station to that teams color; this means that you can't have a player run to a station while getting shot and turn it to their color.
    • Teams accrue point based on the station showing their color. Ultimately, it's like different flag points, but now you get other options that would be difficult otherwise, such as:
      • more points the longer the station has been under your control
      • the station will go back to neutral after a period of inactivity (requiring teams to constantly tag it)
    • If the station is already yours and a same-team player tags it, just restart the time-until-neutral timer
    • An advanced option would be combining stations. Have a large fort? Great, you need teamwork to actually capture it; place stations in each corner and require players to hold each button for 1.5-3 seconds *at the same time*
    • If you integrate RFID, now each player can be accountable per station. With enough power and the proper hardware, you could use ESP8266's or other cheap wireless/RF component, you could log when players use their RFID, keeping individual player score (good for prizes) and control of the stations (team A won a particular objective making all stations immediate turn their color). Bonus points for having a laptop, map and realtime station status display for players. Now they know where to go for the gun-fights and where to go for the stations.


    the point is to give players something else to do on the field other than shoot at players; it helps pull players together to go toward a common goal for both the sake of the team ("we in the control point!"), and themselves ("I can win a prize!" and "I got mvp!"). I *really* think this idea could take off, but getting the last point will be difficult. Ultimately, you can get an arduino, RFID reader, some buttons and LED's for a reasonable price; the problem is getting the entire "mesh" connectivity. You could try to store each rfid tag in eeprom and have each station keep an individual list to be retrieved later.


    Along the same lines of your spawn point, hows this:
    • RFID tags can be written to with a limited amount of data, why not a respawn bypass?
    • each RFID tag starts with 1 respawn on it, getting a new "life" every hour.
    • Normal respawn entry is every 10-15 minutes or you can use your RFID tags "life" to skip the timer and jump back in.


    This can easily be combined with the previous entry, though it'll require a ref to be stationed at each respawn point to allow the players back in when they want to use their life.

  5. #5
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    We played almost exactly that when I was in Auckland

    Three stations, each connected wirelessly to the other, with big chunky switches to make them red or blue. Worked on a countdown just like bf1942, with the central base having a speaker and reading out scores and countdowns.

    It sort of worked, but the people running it were more technical than game design savvy and so the bases would be put out in the middle of clearings, which made taking them too difficult, which in turn meant many players stopped caring. You need cover.
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    vijil; Interesting follow up post.

    Right now my technical issue is power. Power kills me for all my ideas. The RFID reader I have cannot be powered through the USB port on the Raspberry Pi I am using. You are supposed to use a powered USB hub. So now I am working on finding out how to power a USB hub in the woods.

    I have been working on an electronic flag project with illuminated flags for what feels like forever, but it has been two years and I have had to restart from scratch a couple of times. It has taken up huge space in the workroom and I am still working on it. The real killer has been wireless communication. Right now I am trying to get Synapse modules working. They are proprietary but have amazing range. While many people online seem to really like them I have had a hellish time getting them working. I only got one to transmit at all relatively recently after tremendous time and effort. And I can do is prove it transmits, does not reliably do what it is suppose to do yet.

    It would be appreciated if you could put me in touch with these folks so I can ask if they can give me some advice on the wireless part. If anyone could tell me how to solve my wireless problems (even if means using a new system) it would make my decade.

    The pain my flag system has caused me (due to the wireless stuff) and the insane power problems I have had it with means the idea of combining with it something else (the RFID) scares me, but I am intrigued by the idea of knowing who captured a flag each time it changed hands between teams. Also I loved the idea of the status of a flag being connected to another flag. Almost like power stations in the Onslaught gametype of UT2004.

    Seriously, if you think they would talk to me please tell me who these more technical than game savvy are. (I will not tell them what you said about them.:-)) In fact if anyone here is an expert in wireless communication or knows Synapse modules well please help.

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    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    I'll see what I can do

    For USB power, would a portable phone recharging pack do the trick? I have a 10,000mah one that's great for charging phones but not sure how it would do running your thing.

    I'm pretty sure the guys here actually just used a local wifi network - I seem to remember it not liking big fields and limiting how far apart the bases were.
    Last edited by vijil; 01-29-2017 at 12:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davros View Post
    vijil; Interesting follow up post.

    Right now my technical issue is power. Power kills me for all my ideas. The RFID reader I have cannot be powered through the USB port on the Raspberry Pi I am using. You are supposed to use a powered USB hub. So now I am working on finding out how to power a USB hub in the woods.
    IMO, stop looking at a Rpi, way overkill for what you need. You'll still need power, but you should be able to do a lot better with something like a ESP8266 module and RFID device or Arduino, ESP8266 and rfid.

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    FallnAngel, I meant to say thanks for posting. This thread was so quiet for a while it made me wonder if I was on the right track at all. Appreciate you throwing those ideas out, they do generally interest me. It gets me thinking and that was the main point of posting originally. In my reply I mislabelled whose comments I was replying to, my apologies. It seems like you guys understood though that the general comments on the game ideas were meant for FallnAngel and the comments on talking to the game savvy guys were for vijil.


    People keep telling me that about the Pi for all my projects, and just so you know for the bigger projects I know they are right in principle, but then I go to control the LED light strips illuminating my flags and it becomes 10000 times more complicated without the USB attached light controller that works with the Pi but none of the simpler boards. The Synapse modules will require extensive soldering of wires to connect to simpler boards but with the Pi unit's four USB ports I can connect them with a little USB carrier board. I can use Python libraries to make scripts to do everything, including control the Synapse modules, but with the simpler boards I have to start from almost the beginning learning a more difficult programme language.

    Also at this point I have a bunch of Pi devices lying around, so it is cheaper as well.

    The ESP8266 is just WiFi, it will not get anything in the vaguest vicinity of the range needed. Also, I eventually want to add sound. A speaker that plays a file stating something like "The red team has taken possession of this flag station." when a flag button is pushed in order to make it feel even more like a video game. Adding sound to arduinos, etc makes them cost more than a Pi.

    That being said, for the RFID installation specifically that you mentioned, which does not have lights, communication, etc, maybe I should. Even though learning to write the programme will be hard compared to simpler Python, it is a limited function. Read tag, react with a score or somesuch. I could probably manage that. After reading your post and you putting it in my head, I think I will look up RFID options for the Arduino. right now.

    vijil; Thank you for looking into it. The portable USB power packs might do and I have used them for paintball electronic prop installations, however I am unclear if I plug one into a USB hub through a USB port if it will deliver power or not, and if it will be enough as USB ports intentionally limit power. USB to barrel jack cables exist and I am hoping I can use one to plug the power pack into the DC power port of the hub. Just do not know if this will work. Will power even go from the power pack to the hub if the hub fails to detect a USB signal from the hub end? Trying to find out.

    Also, I have 12v solenoid locks to power for another prop and lead acid batteries are expensive and heavy. Putting 8 AA batteries together in a holder just feels flimsy, but I guess it should work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davros View Post
    People keep telling me that about the Pi for all my projects, and just so you know for the bigger projects I know they are right in principle, but then I go to control the LED light strips illuminating my flags and it becomes 10000 times more complicated without the USB attached light controller that works with the Pi but none of the simpler boards. The Synapse modules will require extensive soldering of wires to connect to simpler boards but with the Pi unit's four USB ports I can connect them with a little USB carrier board. I can use Python libraries to make scripts to do everything, including control the Synapse modules, but with the simpler boards I have to start from almost the beginning learning a more difficult programme language.
    IMO, it's still overkill. The rPi is going to take more power (which is already a concern) and you're looking at USB light controllers. What's wrong with a simple LED or two that blinks every 1/2 second?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davros View Post
    The ESP8266 is just WiFi, it will not get anything in the vaguest vicinity of the range needed. Also, I eventually want to add sound. A speaker that plays a file stating something like "The red team has taken possession of this flag station." when a flag button is pushed in order to make it feel even more like a video game. Adding sound to arduinos, etc makes them cost more than a Pi.
    IMO, I'd forgo the sound too; just too hard to hear on the field, but that's just me. In either case, you should check out aliexpress.com; you'll have to wait for it, but you can find cheap components there. the ESP8266 can be programmed like an arduino and supports both station and client wifi (ie. it can act as an access point, a client or both). If you spread a few of them around as station access and use the rest as client, I think you could get decent wifi coverage depending on the field and how many you have. You can also look at RF communication instead, though then you'll need some kind of gateway to interface to a PC of some kind to deal with the database I would imagine.

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