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Thread: Simon ?

  1. #1
    Hebrews 13:8 going_home's Avatar
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    Simon ?

    Why are there no Stella barrel back sizes between .685 and .690 ?

    Most paint around here is .687 or .689....

    Was hoping to completely switch from the Freak inserts but apparently I cant.
    endeavor to persevere.......

  2. #2
    Simon believes that there is no real difference in sizes that small, as the few thousandsth difference in "apparent" size in paint. So a slight under or overbore of a few balls won't effect the overall performance of the barrel.

  3. #3
    Copying a post I made before on the subject and why we don't have bore sizes in between the 0.005 increments.

    I would be taking your money for something you don't need.

    I'm not a fan of that really. I designed the Sniper barrel back when we released the Axe and have been using that (as the grandfather to the Stella) in pro paintball and rec paintball ever since with many teams and at the highest levels.

    I do not believe there is a need or an advantage to a smaller increment other than making your pockets lighter and mine heavier...

    Many people look at that number and think that because there are five numbers different from one size to the other that it's significant and there should be options in between, but let's consider a few things including how much that number really represents.

    A human hair can be up to 0.007" so 40% larger than the difference in those barrel sizes...

    Standard printer paper is approx .004" thick so the difference between the sizes is about the same or just slightly more than a sheet of paper. Grab a nearby sheet and take a look at that.

    Heck grab two together and take a look. That's 0.08" and far more than the difference in the two sizes. See how little that really is?

    Now the fun part... how inconsistent are paintballs. Answer. VERY. The difference in most paint nowadays is so significant that the paint is going to be far more an an issue than a difference in the bore of what would be say 0.0025 if you were to go for a bore size between what we offer.

    Then lets look at manufacturing tolerances. We choose to make full bore backs as we can hold far tighter tolerances than you can with inserts.

    I was responsible for making inserts (The Super Freak System) the tolerance on bore sizes on the print was +/-0.001. So a bore that could have been 0.680 was allowable at 0.679 or 0.681 and a bore at 0.685 at 0.684 or 0.686.

    So only 0.003 between the bore sizes 0.680 and 0.685 was common... although in reality making the Freak insert system is a PITA and as inconsistent as hell, so if you actually went and measured them you would find 0.002" or 0.003" differences from the marked size (if they were even round which is another issue).

    So then you could (and often do) end up with a 0.680 back (0.683 after the large tolerance) which is in reality actually larger than a 0.685 back (0.682 after the large tolerance)...

    And it's not just the Empire Inserts. Go ahead and measure them for size and concentricity from other manufacturers...

    They may even start out round (if we give the benefit of the doubt) but usually end up very ovalized after the abuse we put them through in paintball.

    Now since the paint is so inconsistent, as long as they are sized to the ball, the actual number on them doesn't really matter that much nor does being slightly out of round, but to try and sit here and justify selling you bore sizes between 0.005" increments as something you actually need or want... would be bull****. And I don't sell that.

    I've not used bores in smaller increments that that in well over 10 years now. The Pro teams shooting Axes in the years they won with them shot barrels with 0.005 increments. Many still do.

  4. #4
    A little sideways topic but:
    Everything you just described Simon, the consumer has seen as the freak system has now been produced by like 4 different sources/companies.
    I have had three different people bring freak systems to the field with them one is GOG, one is Empire, and an older set of Smart parts. It is a miracle if the first guys .680 from SP is anywhere close to the same ID as the next guys .680 Empire insert or if it even is close to a true .680.

    I've become a bit of a hoarder of old freak parts, backs and fronts. But I truly appreciate the precision of a solid control bore back as opposed to insert system. I did hear better things about the powerlyte scepter insert system when they were more prevalent because the walls of the insert had a bit more meat to them.

  5. #5
    Anima PBSteve's Avatar
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    Nah, I have the '04 scepter, there's not much more to them than a freak if anything. I could put my calipers on there but i'd be surprised if it was more than a few thou. I do like my SS freak set if for no other reason than they hit the dims a bit better. A lot more solid lol

    The other thing to keep in mind that I think a lot of people forget, is that barrels are measured in diameter. So if your barrel is 3 thou bigger or smaller that's actually only 1.5 thou on each side of the ball.

    Pretty tiny.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 04-14-2017 at 02:23 PM.
    And the science gets done, and you make a neat gun, for the people who are still alive.

  6. #6
    Hebrews 13:8 going_home's Avatar
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    I have the SS inserts also.

    Maybe I'll try a .690 back, .685 will be too small for the stuff available here.
    endeavor to persevere.......

  7. #7
    Hebrews 13:8 going_home's Avatar
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    On another note someone posted on PBN that the Predators have started shipping ?
    endeavor to persevere.......

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    On another note someone posted on PBN that the Predators have started shipping ?
    Nope. No idea where they got that from.

    We have been hassling our anodizers every day for the last 3 weeks. Parts we gave approval for on the 7th of February have not been done yet. They promised us a four week turnaround...

    Now they tell us we should start getting the first of the green parts back next week. Then they need laser, assembly, packaging etc.

    Finishers and anodizers are the banes of our lives.

  9. #9
    Anima PBSteve's Avatar
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    Do you do the lasering or do you send it off for that? Looks like a laser head that attaches to a CNC is pretty damn cheap, although it would tie your machines up.
    And the science gets done, and you make a neat gun, for the people who are still alive.

  10. #10
    We picked up a used laser from a friend and refurbished it so we can do it in house. We have quite a lot planned for it if it works out as we hope.

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