Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 105

Thread: Andy's Firemag Unibody

  1. #51
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,084
    So what does a modernized mag look like to you?
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    The bolt spring in the Axe and Etha just return the bolt. There are no outside forces, it's just working against the weight of the bolt and any small amount of friction from o-rings.

    The bolt spring in the Mag is much beefier because it's partially balancing against the chamber pressure, in an attempt to reduce the pneumatic bias on the bolt so the sear can function more easily.

    Axe:


    vs.

    Mag:


    What this means in operation is that it doesn't take much for the air to compress the spring in the axe or Etha, air flowing through the bolt is enough to keep the bolt forward. In the mag, because the spring's so strong you need a constriction between the bolt and the powertube to keep the bolt forward during the exhaust event. A constriction like this takes a solid bite out of your efficiency.
    Ah, that is where the mag suffers. TK had built mags to last. Stainless steel, great tolerances, the right parts. Because of the bolt, which is no dandelion, it does require more to return it. So when it fires you have all that mass it does require more to return. So reduce the mass, you reduce the force and when you reduce the force, you can reduce the size of the parts.

  3. #53
    Hebrews 13:8 going_home's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    563
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    So what does a modernized mag look like to you?
    Like the one I just built with the recent prebuy of the Evo unibody.





    Or the Nummech Firemag unibody with his new frame.


    I am of the opinion that it would be hard to improve the Xvalve.


    Mags are all about customization, making it your own.


    The one constant is the valve.


    I will be shooting the Evo when the CS1 is long gone.


    Last edited by going_home; 05-16-2017 at 08:11 PM.
    endeavor to persevere.......

  4. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    I'm reminded of Gordon's gun apologetics video.

  5. #55
    Insider Unfated33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    795
    Okay, so when I get up to post #54 in this thread, the impression I get is that people want to keep the valve intact but change all the connection parts and ASAs to make it more in line with current industry standards. It seems at least Going Home values the feature of modularity and customization.

    So my question is, what is it about the lvl10 valve or xvalve that makes you want to keep it as opposed to a more modern valve like in a Gtek or Torque or what Lurker proposes for the Paragon? Is it the idea that it won't chop? Is it some kind of ruggedness or reliability that you wouldn't find in one of the other mentioned markers? Is it the ability to stay mechanical and not require a board/battery?

    If this is all just about being able to change to wood paneling and a bike handlebar for a foregrip, I'm out. That doesn't scream modern to me at all. If it's about mechanical spools, why not more embrace for the Tippmann Crossover or pushing for a mechanical Etha 2?

  6. #56
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,303
    So my question is, what is it about the lvl10 valve or xvalve that makes you want to keep it as opposed to a more modern valve like in a Gtek or Torque or what Lurker proposes for the Paragon?
    I guess part of it is I still have mine. Over 24 years later. It still runs. The Valve/Reg/Bolt is still working great and I can throw it into a new body and go play and have fun or leave it in my old setup I polished by hand.

    It is kind of like owning a Tank. It might not be perfect, but it still will run over anything in front of it. It will a decade from now. And maybe a decade after that.
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design
    www.j4paintball.com

  7. #57
    Insider new ion?'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    1,296
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    If it's about mechanical spools, why not more embrace for the Tippmann Crossover or pushing for a mechanical Etha 2?
    I think that's what Steve is trying to get at. If you modernize a mag 'too much', you end up with a Crossover or Etha etc. So why aren't these guns more popular with the mag crowd? Did they go too far modern? What would it take to modernize a mag while still keeping mag enthusiasts happy?

  8. #58
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,303
    I think that's what Steve is trying to get at. If you modernize a mag 'too much', you end up with a Crossover or Etha etc.
    There is a point in that. I think part of it also would require AGD to come out with it. They tend to be fans of the brand... Ha!

    On a fun note, the original Shiva valve came about looking at ways to make a closed bolt Mag. I had the same valve type as a Crossover, but I figured two shafts to push the bolt closed would do it. But the valve was the same Phenom/Etha/Crossover style. They did about the same thing, just kept it a blow forward.
    Last edited by pbjosh; 05-17-2017 at 12:48 PM.
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design
    www.j4paintball.com

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    I'm reminded of Gordon's gun apologetics video.
    its tough, because i love these guns. and will defend them against anyone who thinks they are junk.

    but they also are very much guns of there era, and as a result, just arn't as good as modern guns.

    so the AO guys hate me because i rip on there guns, and the new gun guys think im just an old dinosaur, and all im saying is like old guns. i like old machine tools too, i really wish i'd been able to see DTM4 in action. i like old cars too. i just like them. not because they are better, or higher performing, or "they don't make them like they used to" i just like quirky things, and old things are quirky.




    i think we have too also look at the sociological implication and community building. the AO guys, they have there hierarchy. and so when something new comes along, and a community gets built around that, thats a threat to the powers that be in that hierarchy. and so on and so on, until you have a classic community, which is even more inbred and self reinforcing upon itself its hierarchy .... and around and around we go. so by attacking automags, ICD guns, AKA etc, any of these classic communities, you are also ipsofacto insulting the people that are in the leadership roles (often self appointed) of those communities, which of course triggers the most predictable of human responses .... irrational defensiveness.

    instead of just embracing the gun, the design, the features for what they are, you get insane arguments like "the tolerances are so good it only works with this XXX" where anyone rational would say, "well that means it was designed poorly" etc etc

    the study of any object of human creation, from cars, to paintballs guns, to real guns, one must not overlook the people who created, embraced and surround the object, why they assemble, how they assembled and what keeps them there, to understand why decisions are made about owning, using, and developing new things.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 05-17-2017 at 01:35 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
    I think that's what Steve is trying to get at. If you modernize a mag 'too much', you end up with a Crossover or Etha etc. So why aren't these guns more popular with the mag crowd? Did they go too far modern? What would it take to modernize a mag while still keeping mag enthusiasts happy?
    id agree with this.

    in some ways because of the stagnation of the automag design, gun design skipped over the automag ... kinda right back into what a modern automag would look like.

    i love the cross over, actually a great gun IMO.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •