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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    C'mon, thats all you got ?

    thank you for proving my point
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  2. #902
    Insider Unfated33's Avatar
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    It seems like the Ford v Cavanaugh hearing has more or less blown up in the face of the Republicans. Ford was credible and at times knowledgeable to appear an expert witness when discussing thoughts and memory. And yet there's still about a coin flip that they will nominate another serial sex abuser to the court. The optics here are pretty poor.

    EDIT: But, mannnnn.... it was really funny that a judge trying to appear non-partisan just blew up shouting at the left and then called all the Senators on the committee an embarrassment. Phew, I would say he's going down in flames but this guy could still get approved to sit!
    Last edited by Unfated33; 09-27-2018 at 03:23 PM.

  3. #903
    doesn't matter, went to lunch with three trump supporting boomers. and it was just constant, shes a whore, shes being paid, shes a friend of hillary's, soros is behind it all etc etc

    they are going to shove this through, he will be on the supreme court.

    the only way to stop this, is to flip the senate. which isn't going to happen. the only solution to this entire mess, is electorial. there is no bottom, they are going to put a probable gang rapist on the supreme court, and they literally don't give a shit. why would they? we elected someone who admitted to sexual assault as the president. if you do care, you have to vote.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-27-2018 at 03:49 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #904
    Trump admitted that his past experience with being accused of sexual assault has influenced his defense of Kavanaugh, but not to sexual assault itself.

    You know, I had this one coworker a long time ago that was a really shitty person. He was mean, tried to punk people left and right, was rude and talked shit to everyone. However, if we had to decide who was 'our best guy' to send into a difficult situation: he was the best person at his job. We put up with a lot of bullshit from that guy, but when push came to shove, he was still the best choice. He was a monster at his job.

    I think of Trump sort of like that. I don't want to hang out with him, but he's been good at following through on his promises and his policies aren't the usual passive and weak ones we've seen for so long. As much as his opponents like to complain and try to stop him, its not like they can come up with any better nominees, policies, or ideas.

    We've had plenty of less refined presidents in the past, some of them are the ones we champion the most. LBJ for instance, makes Trump look graceful and charming.

  5. #905
    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    Trump admitted that his past experience with being accused of sexual assault has influenced his defense of Kavanaugh, but not to sexual assault itself.

    You know, I had this one coworker a long time ago that was a really shitty person. He was mean, tried to punk people left and right, was rude and talked shit to everyone. However, if we had to decide who was 'our best guy' to send into a difficult situation: he was the best person at his job. We put up with a lot of bullshit from that guy, but when push came to shove, he was still the best choice. He was a monster at his job.

    I think of Trump sort of like that. I don't want to hang out with him, but he's been good at following through on his promises and his policies aren't the usual passive and weak ones we've seen for so long. As much as his opponents like to complain and try to stop him, its not like they can come up with any better nominees, policies, or ideas.

    We've had plenty of less refined presidents in the past, some of them are the ones we champion the most. LBJ for instance, makes Trump look graceful and charming.
    what?

    trump just was literally laughed at by the entire world, and is single handedly taking down our economy with his ignorance on trade. we have curbed our investments on future power sources, effectively ending our technological domination of the field, giving up our world leader status to china (to fucking china for gods sake). we gave up actual defense of our ally south korea (like we stopped actually running defense drills with SK), in exchange for literally nothing. and we backed out of a deal that gave us everything we needed/wanted from iran, at almost zero cost to us. then, we've constantly insulted our best allies (canada, UK, germany and france), and made russia, our actual enemy, stronger.

    the US is unquestionably weaker in every single way under trump than we were under obama.

    the only place there that is not true, is our counties tweeter meme game, that is better than it ever has been, ever.

    trump isn't tough but fair love. trump is just an idiot.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #906
    defense budgets don't save you either, as obama spent more on defense per year than trump has so far. obama also proposed higher spending on defense than trump has asked for so far.

    there is literally nothing that trump has done to make the USA stronger. https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/24/...bama-readiness
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  7. #907
    I can't reply to claims that don't have the data to back them up but I'll reply to what I can or ask:

    -Trump was not literally laughed at by the entire world. Incorrect use of the word 'literally' for one, and second... over what exactly? His UN address? Yeah, the Germans were laughing it up and scoffing... meanwhile what he said is actually very true. Ask actual Germans how they feel about depending on Russia for energy and how that has gone.

    -He hasn't ended anyone's investments in future power sources except for the government's propping it up. If its so promising (and it is) then why does the government need to drive it? Let the free market work like it should and leave the government out. Those tax credits for things like electric autos are a joke and really just put money into the pockets of the manufacturers, not the people. Anytime you subsidize the entry level to a market, you push up the entry fee for everyone else. Not sure what you are talking about specifically though.

    -China was always poised to dominate in the alternative energy market no matter what Trump or anyone else could do. So what? Good for them! They have 4-5x the people, I sure as shit hope they have a larger economy than we do or something is seriously wrong. I lived there for almost a decade and I can tell you that as a country, on a day to day basis, they are more conservative and free than we are. So maybe to compete we need to consider being less liberal as well.

    -The whole 'he's bad to our allies while getting close to our supposed enemies' thing is getting old. Yeah, its called 'keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer'. As bad as you can make it sound, if the end result is NK becoming an ally and NK becoming a peaceful and productive nation... who cares? I don't think SK or Japan will mind. I actually agree with Trump on that one because frankly SK would wipe NK if the shit went down... the only real threat is if China got involved, but China has changed in their support of NK. I saw it over the years I was in China. The Chinese government AND people are getting sick of NK's bullshit and have stated of their own accord that as long as SK isn't attacked first, if NK gets into a conflict again it won't do anything to help. In fact, if NK was the aggressor, they would consider rolling next door on their own. China is smart... they know that a war in the region would spell doom for their trade and manufacturing that they depend on. So China has been cutting support for NK, and the US has been backing off with SK as well in return. Now NK wants to talk? Geez, looks pretty good to me. Iran? Yeah, the deal we had with Iran sucked in the first place and was pretty much the USA giving them a pile of cash in exchange for some promises that they wouldn't 'act up again'. That whole 'at no cost to us' thing is bullshit. We were paying a past enemy to act like our friend at the dismay of Saudi Arabia and Israel... weren't you the one saying we should treat our allies better? If that's so then the Iran deal should have never happened in the first place. Trump's stance isn't a 'we're gonna pay you to be nice' stance, its a 'you're gonna be nice or we're going to mess you up'. Which do you think gets better results from a non-ally?

    -Canada, UK, Germany, and France are our allies? Yeah, they are like that friend you have that claims to be your friend, then comes over and hits on your girlfriend, talks shit about you to everyone, eats all your food and drinks all your beer, then when you stop being the nice guy for once and say something that suggests he's an asshole he turns around and accuses you of being a bully and a jerk. Our #1 ally now is China, like it or not. That's just economic fact. And Russia is our enemy? I thought the Clinton's had friends over there, lol. How is Russia our enemy? What, because they don't just do what we want them to and instead act like a sovereign nation?

    -His solutions are more about the long term than the short term. Cut the leaches off before they turn into lampreys, don't keep trying to feed them more to keep them happy.

    -Unquestionably weaker in every single way? Like...??? I'm seeing more of the opposite right now but okay if you say so... oh, wait, that's not how this works.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...idency/564986/

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...d-a-great-2018
    Last edited by JimBobFett; 09-27-2018 at 05:42 PM.

  8. #908
    he actually was literally, correct definition, laughed at by the entire world. there is video. you can watch the entire world, laugh, at the president of the united states of america.

    because most new technologies need basic research in order to get going. if you deny this, thats pretty much denying every technological advancement of the human race in the last 50 years. almost all of it, is due to government research dollars at its core.

    china wasn't posed to take anything from anyone. you can't both say that china being a leader in green power was always going to happen, and that china is the reason why we shouldnt have green power investments here. mind-blowing the stupidly of this. don't we already have a 100+ page thread on why china not being green is the reason why we shouldn't bother? lol

    china is in no way freer than the USA. if you believe this, your a fucking moron. no, actually, you are. i know people who both currently live, and have lived in china. there is very little free about china.

    NK is not slowing down in any way there nuclear program. trump's DoD and IC even confirmed this. NK isn't getting any more peaceful.

    no actually, Germany, France, UK and Canada are OUR allies. we wrote it down once, its called NATO. its the cornerstone of the entire post-WW2 peace that we've been enjoying for 70+ years. you know, without it we kept having this nasty 30+ million dead world wars every 20 years or so? yeah. so its kinda a big deal. somehow trump managed to lose the cold war 25 years after we won it. putin is just laughing his ass off at us.

    he has no solutions. term isn't even a factor.

    somehow trump and the right wing echo chamber have truly convinced 30-40% of the country, that losing, is actually winning. that things getting worse is actually things getting better. that being laughed at is out of respect. that a weaker economy makes us stronger. that having less allies improves our world position. that surrendering future power sources to other countries is good for our technological and economic strength. that black is white, and up is down.

    china freer than the USA ... jesus ...

    get out and vote, everyone. please, just get out and vote. these people are literally unreachable. they can only be outvoted.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-27-2018 at 06:11 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #909
    I watched it live. Saw some laughs, some jokes at his own expense. Never saw ~8 billion people laugh at him, just foreign delegates for other countries. Whoop whoop. What did you expect from a room full of bureaucrats?

    Okay, so what 'new technology' do we need to develop to get going? Solar? Nope, its already been developed and now it pays for itself within 5 years. Wind? Nope, not really new technology. Battery technology? Uh, I think the private sector has this one now. I would have agreed with you a while ago when the options didn't even exist but man... my father owns a solar installation company and its doing just fine. The biggest problem is that people just won't invest their own money if anything. The panels and electronics are cheap now though. The single largest impact we have though is by buying energy efficient lighting and appliances. That's all private sector. You want solar panels on the cheap? I have stacks of them in my garage. If anything the government is starting to become the barrier for more adoption. Many states are taxing solar users because it means they are losing money to sustain the power grid. How is that government helping again?

    But to claim that the government has been behind all the scientific achievements of the past 50 years is also bull. While I can't deny the contributions that NASA has made, there are plenty of private sector examples as well if not A LOT MORE. How about we look at this list and see how many were discovered by the government? What advancements are you thinking about? Cell phones? ATM's? Medicines? Electric Autos? Fiber Optics? Laser surgery? Barcode scanners? Birth control? Online Commerce? Wireless communications? Where was the government for all those things?
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/tec.../a341/2078467/

    As far as China, you just put a whole slew of words in my mouth that I never said. "china wasn't posed to take anything from anyone"... never said they were taking anything from anyone. And yes, I lived and worked there myself for almost a decade. Guess how much the average citizen pays in tax? 0. Sales tax? 0. It's the wild west out there. As westerners we have certain preconceptions about China that we look for certain details to confirm. Sure, there is a restricted internet. Sure, there are certain social barriers. But on the whole, you can do pretty much whatever you want there with minimal red tape. You can live very cheaply (financial freedom is awesome there). China is in the perfect position to develop a larger electric transportation infrastructure and alternative energies because its already something that they do. That, and they have waaaay more people to do it with. Oh, and they NEED to do it because of their geographical location and pollution problems that need solutions ASAP.

    Here is a video by a buddy of mine in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0RXyzBmsvc

    Yeah, as far as the day-to-day stuff, much less government involvement and taxation.

    NK? Okay, lets just wait and see.

    NATO? "A piece of paper", lol? I remember Germany signed one of those after WW1 too... that worked! Yeah, we are allies, so why not try to go out and make more new ones too? What has NATO even been up to recently? Anything major? How about the UN? Yeah, you know what they are good at? Getting the USA to pay for a disproportionately large amount of their expenses. How about we pay our fair share instead? I don't get what the problem is. His policies are clear and things he's been talking about for a while. He's doing exactly what he promised.

    I don't know... the economy seems pretty strong and the measures he's taken seem to be viable in the long term as well, but I'm sure you don't care about my opinion and you have more to say based on opinion.

    As for what will happen in the next election... well, just like the last one, its not that Trump 'won' so much as the Democrats just keep losing purpose. Most of their cries for change are for things that nobody cares about or even believes are real issues. The more they beat their drums over things like identity politics and imaginary boogeymen, the more desperate they look. The Democrats preach all this 'tolerance' yet look at them, they have become the party of intolerance and righteous indignation. Look at your responses... all just opinion based on opinion and no actual hard data or facts to back it all up. The best you can come up with is personal insults and dismissal of what I'm saying with a mob mentality... the last ditch desperate effort of a losing ideology to discredit the opposing perspective.

    People see that coming from the Democratic party these days and from its sheep... the same stuff you are spewing out, and they just want to leave. As soon as you disagree about something, you become the enemy. Have I insulted you? No, but you are so upset you call me a 'fucking moron' for some reason. What happened to all that sensitivity training, safe-space awareness, and so called 'tolerance'? Funny how it makes you so intolerant of independent thought. Keep it up! By the time the next election rolls around everyone's gonna be sick of the "Party of Anger and Mob Mentality". That's why so many are leaving the Dem's already.
    Last edited by JimBobFett; 09-27-2018 at 08:26 PM.

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    Okay, so what 'new technology' do we need to develop to get going? Solar? Nope, its already been developed and now it pays for itself within 5 years. Wind? Nope, not really new technology. Battery technology? Uh, I think the private sector has this one now.
    Those are "existing" technologies. "New" technologies are those that are new.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    The biggest problem is that people just won't invest their own money if anything.
    Which means someone else has to invest money. This is usually the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    But to claim that the government has been behind all the scientific achievements of the past 50 years is also bull. While I can't deny the contributions that NASA has made, there are plenty of private sector examples as well if not A LOT MORE. How about we look at this list and see how many were discovered by the government? What advancements are you thinking about? Cell phones? ATM's? Medicines? Electric Autos? Fiber Optics? Laser surgery? Barcode scanners? Birth control? Online Commerce? Wireless communications? Where was the government for all those things?
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/tec.../a341/2078467/
    Inventions are not equivalent to scientific achievement. Inventions are commercial applications of new technology developed from past scientific discoveries. Once a scientific discovery is made, subsidizing the commercialization of its applications because at that point, its profitability is apparent to businesses. E.g. cell phones were developed from the discovery of electromagnetic radiation by Maxwell, who worked for a public university. ATM's are simply a combination of existing technology. There's nothing technologically novel about them. Penicillin is the first true antibiotic invented and it was discovered by Flemming in St Mary's hospital, a voluntary hospital at the time. Electric cars, like ATM's, are not technologically novel, but the electric motor is based on the principle of Ampere's-force law, developed by Ampere at Ecole Polytechnique, public French institution.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    And yes, I lived and worked there myself for almost a decade. Guess how much the average citizen pays in tax? 0. Sales tax? 0.
    China does have individual income tax. Maybe you and your neighbors avoided paying it, but individuals do pay tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    Sure, there is a restricted internet. Sure, there are certain social barriers.
    Those are prime examples of restricted freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    But on the whole, you can do pretty much whatever you want there with minimal red tape. You can live very cheaply (financial freedom is awesome there).
    Those are characteristics of all developing countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    China is in the perfect position to develop a larger electric transportation infrastructure and alternative energies because its already something that they do. That, and they have waaaay more people to do it with.
    Part of this development comes from the fact that the Chinese government gives a 10% tax rebate on new electric vehicles, which is similar to the US subsidy that you criticized earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    Oh, and they NEED to do it because of their geographical location and pollution problems that need solutions ASAP.
    China's pollution problems are a result of the government's lax environmental regulations, which served to accelerate economic development, but come at a significant social cost. New, stricter regulations were put in place in January 2015 to combat this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    Here is a video by a buddy of mine in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0RXyzBmsvc

    Yeah, as far as the day-to-day stuff, much less government involvement and taxation.
    An anecdote does not equal a data point.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBobFett View Post
    I don't know... the economy seems pretty strong and the measures he's taken seem to be viable in the long term as well, but I'm sure you don't care about my opinion and you have more to say based on opinion.
    Current economic growth started during the Obama administration. Economic cycles aren't so short that half a presidential term can change the course of the economy.

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