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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #1781
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    "Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant." -Elie Wiesel
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  2. #1782
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Since the white house is the most transparent in history, I assume Trump will release the Mueller report himself.

    In other news about the swamp, https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...n-zinke-226106
    "Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant." -Elie Wiesel
    I work for the company building the Paragon...once we figure out a name

  3. #1783
    interesting that trump isn't trying to take a victory lap after the memo on the mueller report says he didn't conspire to collude. the news media and trumpettes seem to think this must mean he is innocent, but even the AG memo states the exact opposite, that trump has not been cleared of any crimes.

    we know that slightly misquoting his AG is something trump would do to take the victory lap ....

    plenty more to drop. and frankly, the mueller report being subpoenaable by congressional democrats is likly actually BAD news for him, not good news. before the report was written there wasn't anything for congress to do, now there is plenty of dirty laundry to air. plenty of information to make public ....
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 03-25-2019 at 01:23 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #1784
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    Barr, who helped cover up Iran-Contra, who wrote an unsolicited love-letter to Trump last year when he wasn't the AG saying that presidents can't obstruct justice, and that he thought the investigation shouldn't have happened, was basically appointed to cover for Trump. And the best possible spin he could put in his summary about the obstruction, which he specifically said that presidents can't do, was that it does not exonerate Trump of obstruction.

    Also a good breakdown: https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-make-bill-barrs-letter
    Last edited by AndrewTheWookie; 03-25-2019 at 03:47 PM.
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  5. #1785
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTheWookie View Post
    Barr, who helped cover up Iran-Contra, who wrote an unsolicited love-letter to Trump last year when he wasn't the AG saying that presidents can't obstruct justice, and that he thought the investigation shouldn't have happened, was basically appointed to cover for Trump. And the best possible spin he could put in his summary about the obstruction, which he specifically said that presidents can't do, was that it does not exonerate Trump of obstruction.

    Also a good breakdown: https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-make-bill-barrs-letter
    i totally agree.

    the super smart thing mueller has done is de-centralize the investigation. passing it off to several US attorneys, and several state attorneys, which means no one can shut it down now.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #1786
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Isn't this Trump's victory lap? "No Collusion, No Obstruction, Complete and Total EXONERATION. KEEP AMERICA GREAT!" It does seem a little flat.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...to-be-released

    Honestly, I'm having a hard time getting a pulse on what's going on here. It seems like there's a bunch of options and I'm having a hard time ruling any of them out:


    - The actual report is damning and they haven't figured out how to suppress it yet. Seems somewhat unlikely, but I'd think letting it out now would be best for the GoP in 2020, given voter's memories

    - There's nothing criminal in the first half of the report, just a bunch stuff about how much Russia did to help Trump win, maybe even how the Trump organization was too incompetent to be criminal. Something not criminal but with really bad optics

    - There's a bunch of stuff about the GoP brass' horseshit, especially w.r.t. the NRA thing

    - There's absolutely nothing, and McConnell is being McConnell and getting the Dems to step in horseshit - delay as long as possible then release closer to the election. Low risk, huge reward, although it seems about as unlikely as the first option. It does seem to benefit the GoP to release it sooner than later in almost every other scenario (including impeachment)

    Impossible to tell right now.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 03-26-2019 at 02:56 AM.
    "Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant." -Elie Wiesel
    I work for the company building the Paragon...once we figure out a name

  7. #1787
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    It does seem like Trump et al are carefully using Barr's letter to preemptively creaye a narrative, knowing full well that if/when the full report goes public that narrative will be difficult or maybe impossible to replace with the actual report.
    "Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant." -Elie Wiesel
    I work for the company building the Paragon...once we figure out a name

  8. #1788
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    It does seem like Trump et al are carefully using Barr's letter to preemptively creaye a narrative, knowing full well that if/when the full report goes public that narrative will be difficult or maybe impossible to replace with the actual report.
    yup

    there is damning stuff in there, not treason level damning, but financial crimes, evidence of obstruction, evidence of other GOP members doing shit things, but there is no smoking gun with russia. so they rightfully are jumping on no smoking gun of russia must mean hes clean, everything else doesn't matter train. mueller has de-centralized the investigation, and the prosecution of the crimes, so that barr and trump can't do anything about them.

    congressional dems can subpoena the full report, so they should and read it and decide what to do then. if its a nothing burger (its not), then they should let it lie. if its got a bunch of financial crimes, campaign finance crimes, obstruction, etc ... each of there congressional investigations should take those on individually
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #1789
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    Chance there's no wrongdoing - 0%

    Chance there's impeachable wrongdoing e.g. obstruction - 100%

    Chance he will be impeached AND removed - 0%

    Chance that this ends up net negative somehow for Democrats - 50%+



    The only chance of this working as intended was if there was slam dunk evidence of collusion. No one is going to care that Trump evaded taxes, misallocated campaign funds, and obstructed justice. No collection of venial sins is going to alienate his base, and seeing the slings and arrows deflect off him only serves to enhance his image with the base.

    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  10. #1790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    Chance there's no wrongdoing - 0%

    Chance there's impeachable wrongdoing e.g. obstruction - 100%

    Chance he will be impeached AND removed - 0%

    Chance that this ends up net negative somehow for Democrats - 50%+
    I think that last one is considerably better than 50%.
    "Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant." -Elie Wiesel
    I work for the company building the Paragon...once we figure out a name

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