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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #2221
    No, not conservatives, trump sycophants. There is a place for conservative politics.

  2. #2222
    no true scottsman
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #2223
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    No, not conservatives, trump sycophants. There is a place for conservative politics.
    There?s a place for all politics. For some, it?s a trash heap.

    I?m not sure you can separate Trump sycophants from the GoP. Trump is the perfect culmination of GoP ?intellectualism? of the last decade.

  4. #2224
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  5. #2225
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    I watched it and it affirms exactly what i believe to be true. But what is the magic pill, what is the solution to purge this from us. In WW2, italy and Germany plunged themselves into a world war and took on nations collectively that stood up and fought for what is right(eventually, as we knew that there was discrimination against Jews but not extermination camps but we didn'teven know the truth of some of our own allies). We ended that fascism, by Italy imploding upon itself after 10 years of war(remember, Italy tried to take over Ethiopia and then expand its holdings of North Africa, way before 1939) and the germany overstrecthing itself to expunge all people they deemed inferior. Democracy did that, and while you can say that the US was dragged into it, we fought and won. We purged the counties, we exposed the truth and freed the people. So what is our own medicine?

    Do we have to fight ourselves in a 2nd civil war because trump after undermining the constitution and possibly inciting his followers to take up arms to put him back in power against all the communist, liberal, socialists that perpetrated a mass conspiracy to take the election from him? Do we prosecute trump to the fullest measure to "cut the head off the snake" to show how corrupt he truly is, and to use truth to deflate his message of lies, in hopes that that will be enough to break down his base so they just go away? Or do we walk blindly forward and hope that there is literally more of us then them to ensure that at least the non-fascist segments are elected to keep the government clean ofnthis rhetoric.

    As i see it, you can show everyone this, as it does a great job of showing trump and his movement for what it truly is, but it will be no good. As it was said in the vid, they believe the big lie so it doesn't matter if the little lies are exposed. As well as, even if trump doesn't run(because he is in jail-hopefully), who is to say that someone doesn't just pick up where trump left off but is twice as smart and is twice as crafty in how he uses that power to do even more damage? To leave faith in so many parts of the country and a piece of vellum(being a nerd here, the constitution was not written on paper), is idly sitting by and waiting for the inevitable to happen. And i agree that being alarmist also does no good, because there will come a time when you just tune out those alarms.

    So, what is the answer, what is the solution? Identifying the problem is only half the battle. Do we have to go far left to bring back balance? Do we have to have to become exactly what the maga crowd says we are, in order to force change? Or do we all stand back and say "i told you so", while in the reeducation camps?

  6. #2226
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I watched it and it affirms exactly what i believe to be true. But what is the magic pill, what is the solution to purge this from us. In WW2, italy and Germany plunged themselves into a world war and took on nations collectively that stood up and fought for what is right(eventually, as we knew that there was discrimination against Jews but not extermination camps but we didn'teven know the truth of some of our own allies). We ended that fascism, by Italy imploding upon itself after 10 years of war(remember, Italy tried to take over Ethiopia and then expand its holdings of North Africa, way before 1939) and the germany overstrecthing itself to expunge all people they deemed inferior. Democracy did that, and while you can say that the US was dragged into it, we fought and won. We purged the counties, we exposed the truth and freed the people. So what is our own medicine?

    Do we have to fight ourselves in a 2nd civil war because trump after undermining the constitution and possibly inciting his followers to take up arms to put him back in power against all the communist, liberal, socialists that perpetrated a mass conspiracy to take the election from him? Do we prosecute trump to the fullest measure to "cut the head off the snake" to show how corrupt he truly is, and to use truth to deflate his message of lies, in hopes that that will be enough to break down his base so they just go away? Or do we walk blindly forward and hope that there is literally more of us then them to ensure that at least the non-fascist segments are elected to keep the government clean ofnthis rhetoric.

    As i see it, you can show everyone this, as it does a great job of showing trump and his movement for what it truly is, but it will be no good. As it was said in the vid, they believe the big lie so it doesn't matter if the little lies are exposed. As well as, even if trump doesn't run(because he is in jail-hopefully), who is to say that someone doesn't just pick up where trump left off but is twice as smart and is twice as crafty in how he uses that power to do even more damage? To leave faith in so many parts of the country and a piece of vellum(being a nerd here, the constitution was not written on paper), is idly sitting by and waiting for the inevitable to happen. And i agree that being alarmist also does no good, because there will come a time when you just tune out those alarms.

    So, what is the answer, what is the solution? Identifying the problem is only half the battle. Do we have to go far left to bring back balance? Do we have to have to become exactly what the maga crowd says we are, in order to force change? Or do we all stand back and say "i told you so", while in the reeducation camps?
    i dont know.

    i think ~40% of americans have always been ok with fascism. and why wouldnt they be? if you really think that life is just get married, pop a few kids out, go to church on sundays, keep to yourself and live the exact way your family did when you grew up ... fascism is the ideal form of government. fascism is only a problem if you are different in some way, a minority, want to do something new , have health issues etc etc. if all you care about is yourself, and want to live like the old days, there is literally no cost to fascism. hell, most of the nazi eugenics programs can be linked back to post-civil war American attempts at eugenics. the nazis even wrote about it. fascism is as american as apple pie (and slavery), ours always seems to have a bit of an extra, yes im going to use the r word .... racist slant to it.

    and that has been unleashed and unmasked by trump and MAGA. literally the only thing stopping a full decent in totalitarianism at this point is some key republicans. this too i think has always been true. American peaceful transfer of power is contingent on the concept that even those that agree with your political goals will stop you if try to break the rules. mitch mcconnel, some supreme court justices, and trump could simply end american democracy in the next 20ish days. i dont think they will, but they could. so we are put in the position of thanking the enablers, thanking the very people who did so much damage if that doesnt happen.

    and maybe that is what america always has been too. this whole thing only works if we put maintaining this figment of our imagination, the rule of law, above short term political victories.

    and maybe that is the way out. country above party.

    i dont know how to convince them of it. i dont actually think you can convince a trumper out of trumpism. they are in too deep, once you start rejecting reality, how would reality stop you? but everyone else can show up. every election, every cycle, and keep beating them until we can at least put a mask back on american facism.

    i dont know. i wish i did.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 12-29-2020 at 01:30 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  7. #2227
    That's the key, convince them of something they don't believe to be true. You will never broadband this label to them, because of #fake news. Talking with some people, generally Republicans, they are so tuned out to only want believe conservative politics or steadfast against anything liberal that you could never fully change people's minds to the fact. Just as looking back at Germany in the 1930s, you question how could anyone not see the dramatic and drastic changes of the state towards the Jewish and other people, but when you get the answer, it never makes sense. Being swept up in the tide of nationalism; you are either against the state or with it, even if you don't fully hold those specific views that the party holds.

    Now, we have 2 very good examples of fascism in action through Italy and Germany, not that that matters much, since trump is willing to subvert the darker parts of that ideology for his own needs of the 21st century knuckledragger. It really takes a good spinmaster to change that horrible 3ra and use it for their own needs but who would ever think that a failed businessman, reality tv star would have been named president?

    Anyway, i see this as choices none are good.
    A) don't stop him and let him and the movement take over. Pretty self-explanatory here, either we devolve into a civil war or get embroiled into a 2 front war with China and Russia, a lá 1940s Germany and pick up the pieces from what's left.

    B) keep popping holes in the balloon and hope that as his movement stalls, that more people either aren't seeing the instant gratification returns or more people see him for a con man that he is and move away in droves to hide and burn all their maga gear.

    C) actively destroy him, i.e. make a spectacle of him qnd his vast crimes, on the public stage for all to see, cutting off the snake's head. This could work but it would go far darker and dirtier than Biden wants and it could push us, depending on how massive it gets, into a civil war.

    D) ignore him and wait for him to die. Though many are apt to fall in line with trump, there are none to stand next to trump, due to trump's own ego, much like hitler. No one has the charisma, nor the charm to upstage trump, as the GOP has no backbone. If don jr tries, then look up what happened after Oliver Cromwell died and his son took over the English Protectorate. Plus, he's 74 currently and not the greatest shape or health. A nature death would mean the end of trumpism

    E) assassinate trump. The worst idea of them all. Not only would you turn trump into a martyr but would ignite his base into eye for an eye tactics and devolve this into a civil war, as various groups try to take over the power gap.

    F) wait for a true GOP hopeful to rise through the ranks, having more charisma than trump, being more intelligent than a stump that, while his or her views might be opposite of the democratic party, it is well established in the party to be a logical and not fascist movement so we get back to norms.

    G) we fight. We fight harder and longer, exposing the truths at every turn, never backin down, showing the spade is a spade and put an end of trumpism/maga fascism once and for all. This would mean everyone, you, me from the high on top democrats or anti-fascists. You poke holes in everything you see and hear, because the only way to kill a fire is to snub out the flame, quickly and hurriedly.

    But is all that i wrote a thought excerise or plans for the future? What i have said that could be done and not been done by past patriots?

  8. #2228
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Alright, let's get into some lib-on-lib action.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...cation/617525/

    From California to the Northeast, a funny thing has happened recently in America*s most expensive metropolitan areas: Rents have gone down. Ever since remote workers began fleeing urban cores at the start of the coronavirus pandemic*whether to the Hamptons or their parents* basements*urban housing markets have been flooded with empty apartments. As a result, the prices that rental units command in certain large cities have dropped dramatically, to the tune of 18 percent in Boston, 19 percent in Seattle, and nearly 25 percent in San Francisco, according to a November survey by the firm Apartment List.

    The cause of the drop should hardly be surprising. The pandemic has radically decreased demand for big-city living while also increasing the quantity of available apartments. Yet this basic fact, plain for all to see, flies in the face of much received wisdom about the factors that cause urban housing prices to go up or down. Among some leftists and liberals alike, as well as the politicians who court them, the idea that developers of pricey apartments and condo buildings are to blame for high housing prices has long been an article of faith. In this telling, new luxury housing is the reason that former working- and middle-class neighborhoods in their cities have become fancy enclaves. (*You know exactly what a gentrification building looks like,* read a recent viral tweet.) Fighting the construction of such housing would not only reverse the trend of unaffordability, but from the perspective of politicians and activists would also demonstrate support for working-class residents in the process. Since the spring, the pandemic has prompted a steady flow of stories about how urban life will change forever. But COVID-19*s most lasting impact on cities might be in helping put to rest this most persistent of myths about the relationship between housing supply, the cost of living, and that four-letter word of urban politics: gentrification. Not only is it a simplistic analysis that absolves nearly anyone who isn*t a developer of responsibility for the problem, but in portraying new housing as the proximate cause of gentrification, it exacerbates the very housing crisis it seeks to solve.
    My response: Fucking duh. Fuck NIMBYs. Prop 13 (and 58, and 193) should die horrible deaths.

    The only way out of a housing shortage is to build, baby, build. And we're about 500,000 units short here in LA.

    San Francisco is even worse. The liberals NIMBYs there have spent the last 4 years trying to convince people their policies are different from Trump's. Just a bunch of Karens blocking development.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 01-02-2021 at 07:25 PM.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  9. #2229
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I watched it and it affirms exactly what i believe to be true. But what is the magic pill, what is the solution to purge this from us. In WW2, italy and Germany plunged themselves into a world war and took on nations collectively that stood up and fought for what is right(eventually, as we knew that there was discrimination against Jews but not extermination camps but we didn'teven know the truth of some of our own allies). We ended that fascism, by Italy imploding upon itself after 10 years of war(remember, Italy tried to take over Ethiopia and then expand its holdings of North Africa, way before 1939) and the germany overstrecthing itself to expunge all people they deemed inferior. Democracy did that, and while you can say that the US was dragged into it, we fought and won. We purged the counties, we exposed the truth and freed the people. So what is our own medicine?
    We than snatched as many of those very educated, non-communists as we could to work in our sciences departments, and for our industrial complexes.....

    We don't have particularly large german communities over here but in the midwest where the auto industries were and down in alabama it's probably a much different kind of white people with a larger post ww2 german influence to it.

  10. #2230
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    The Midwest is full of pre-WWII Germans. Well, Wisconsin is, anyway. My great-great-(great?) grandparents on my grandfather's side moved here a few years prior to the Civil War. You can read up on the Forty-Eighters.

    https://www.americanhistoryusa.com/g...ltural-legacy/
    Last edited by PBSteve; 01-02-2021 at 08:59 PM.

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