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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    thats because obama, and clinton are both actually center, to center right politicians. the democratic party has moved right, for 30 years. there is no political left anymore. it largely does not exist, and what was right wing, is now just democratic platform. on issue after issue, the democrats have just assumed the position of the 80s and 90s GOP, from healthcare to climate change, to economics. obamacare was the GOPs response to single payer. i mean for god sakes it was written by the heritage foundation, and newt gingrich is on video arguing for it as late as 2007. cap and trade was the 90s GOPs response to climate change etc etc etc

    the greatest sin of the GOP has been endorsing anti-intellectualism. its at the root of every problem they have. after 20 years of this, of course up is down and down is up.
    Quite a few of the policies democrats picked up are decent policies. They just don't always execute them properly or they were a bit half-baked. ACA being a perfect example

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by d0cwho View Post
    Quite a few of the policies democrats picked up are decent policies. They just don't always execute them properly or they were a bit half-baked. ACA being a perfect example
    the ACA is straight out of the 90s GOP. they have been proposing the same system for nearly 20 years, hell, even george bush the first was talking about it.

    the GOP really missed the branding on that one. instead of letting obama and dems take credit for it, they should have said "yeah well you stole the idea from us" and tried to re-take it. it would have made obama's legacy pretty shit, and they could have run against that. instead they keep trying to run against a very popular law that works.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #923
    Works? Our healthcare is so expensive now that I am on the verging of not having it at all and putting the money into a savings/investment account instead. It's so expensive and covers so little that it's on the verge of being worth the risk not to have it. It makes sense to have it for our daughter, but for everyone else the the gamble is very close to worth taking and not have it. And our premium is going up next year again by about 10% for the same or less coverage. It's the biggest expense in our lives and it's very close to being un-affordable. It doesn't work. Health care in this country is a joke and woefully broken.

    It was cheaper for me to fly to France and buy my migraine medicine for the year and fly back than it was to buy the same quantity here.

  4. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Works? Our healthcare is so expensive now that I am on the verging of not having it at all and putting the money into a savings/investment account instead. It's so expensive and covers so little that it's on the verge of being worth the risk not to have it. It makes sense to have it for our daughter, but for everyone else the the gamble is very close to worth taking and not have it. And our premium is going up next year again by about 10% for the same or less coverage. It's the biggest expense in our lives and it's very close to being un-affordable. It doesn't work. Health care in this country is a joke and woefully broken.

    It was cheaper for me to fly to France and buy my migraine medicine for the year and fly back than it was to buy the same quantity here.
    the rise in healthcare costs has been lower under the ACA than before, dramatically. so if you think this is bad, then try without the ACA. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/hea...nstitute-study

    the simple solution to actually lowering medical costs is single payer. but you know, thats "communism" here in the states. if the blue wave happens we might get medicare for all, but even that is a compromise stop gap. and republicans will cry bloody murder like they did last time.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-30-2018 at 10:54 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  5. #925
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    The only way it gets fixed is to repeal the healthcare ESI exclusion and make the average salaryman feel the pain.

    Won't happen.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  6. #926
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Lol "leave it for the states to decide"

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...930-story.html
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  7. #927
    Insider Pump Scout's Avatar
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    I know how this will go over, but...

    Prior to the ACA, we had a solid program in Wisconsin that provided health care for those who couldn't afford their own insurance. A condition - a life threatening condition - my wife had was covered under Wisconsin's program. She was able to have the condition taken care of at a time where we struggled to pay rent and utilities, with no out of pocket. Had we not been able to act on it at that time, and fast forward to the rules under the ACA, several things would have changed. First and foremost, the state's program went away. Second and maybe uglier, the ACA stated that this particular life threatening condition didn't have to be covered by health insurance. By that wording, no insurance covered it.

    From where I stand, the ACA could very well have killed my wife. It all came down to timing.

    Once again, back to calling anyone who doesn't agree with you names and living in a bubble of utopia.

  8. #928
    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    I know how this will go over, but...

    Prior to the ACA, we had a solid program in Wisconsin that provided health care for those who couldn't afford their own insurance. A condition - a life threatening condition - my wife had was covered under Wisconsin's program. She was able to have the condition taken care of at a time where we struggled to pay rent and utilities, with no out of pocket. Had we not been able to act on it at that time, and fast forward to the rules under the ACA, several things would have changed. First and foremost, the state's program went away. Second and maybe uglier, the ACA stated that this particular life threatening condition didn't have to be covered by health insurance. By that wording, no insurance covered it.

    From where I stand, the ACA could very well have killed my wife. It all came down to timing.

    Once again, back to calling anyone who doesn't agree with you names and living in a bubble of utopia.
    pretty unique situation. pretty stupid that this condition was not included in the ACA. the pre-existing conditions clause is massively popular for this reason.

    medical bankruptcies are all but dead under the ACA, which is a huge victory as well. by almost any data you look at, the ACA is much better than what it replaced. which is exactly why republicans of the 80s and 90s like the idea so much ... it works. the only way to actually lower costs further, is have the largest collective bargaining power ... ie single payer.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #929
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    I know how this will go over, but...

    Prior to the ACA, we had a solid program in Wisconsin that provided health care for those who couldn't afford their own insurance. A condition - a life threatening condition - my wife had was covered under Wisconsin's program. She was able to have the condition taken care of at a time where we struggled to pay rent and utilities, with no out of pocket. Had we not been able to act on it at that time, and fast forward to the rules under the ACA, several things would have changed. First and foremost, the state's program went away. Second and maybe uglier, the ACA stated that this particular life threatening condition didn't have to be covered by health insurance. By that wording, no insurance covered it.

    From where I stand, the ACA could very well have killed my wife. It all came down to timing.

    Once again, back to calling anyone who doesn't agree with you names and living in a bubble of utopia.
    Wisconsin has not implemented the ACA, and the ACA doesn't prevent states from going above and beyond (and many do). It was the republican led state legislature that let whatever coverage it was lapse from badgercare, as well as the republican state legislature's decision to refuse federal funds for the ACA.

    https://www.healthinsurance.org/wisconsin-medicaid/

    A bit strange for you to be complaining about the ACA since it's been effectively blocked by Republicans in Wisconsin.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    Wisconsin has not implemented the ACA, and the ACA doesn't prevent states from going above and beyond (and many do). It was the republican led state legislature that let whatever coverage it was lapse from badgercare, as well as the republican state legislature's decision to refuse federal funds for the ACA.

    https://www.healthinsurance.org/wisconsin-medicaid/

    A bit strange for you to be complaining about the ACA since it's been effectively blocked by Republicans in Wisconsin.
    "implemented the ACA" isn't quite right.

    wisconsin has not expanded medicaid, which is part of the ACA, and was paid for by the ACA for the first 5 (10?) years by the feds. it was literally free, but many red states refused anyway. because fuck you.

    but i agree, i always forget how fucking backwards wisconsin is. good drinkers, but weird closet red-state stupidity abound. over here in pragmatically democratic Minnesota, we did expand medicaid.

    move to minnesota? the economy has been doing great too, at least once we kicked the republicans out of the governorship. t-paw was shit for the state.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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