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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #2091
    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    You really think that a democratic majority wouldnt do the same thing in the same situation? Its a game to those people all of them, if you think either side has any real concern for people whom are not themselves than that is the real issue at hand.
    c'mon, democrats are so weak they let mitch do it. why one year? next time the senate is in GOP hands and the presidency is in dem hands, the dems will be like "yup, your right, its 3.5 years until an election, your totally right, lets not nominate anyone"

    JFC

    so no, the democrats wouldnt do that. 100%.

    you also didnt answer the question, do you see a difference in mitch holding up the works for nearly a year, compared to ramming through a justice in less than 60 days?
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-24-2020 at 09:12 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  2. #2092
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    c'mon, democrats are so weak they let mitch do it. why one year? next time the senate is in GOP hands and the presidency is in dem hands, the dems will be like "yup, your right, its 3.5 years until an election, your totally right, lets not nominate anyone"

    JFC

    so no, the democrats wouldnt do that. 100%.

    you also didnt answer the question, do you see a difference in mitch holding up the works for nearly a year, compared to ramming through a justice in less than 60 days?
    Yea I dont, he is using his leverage for political gain in both scenarios. Like you say its just Racism. This is just standard operating procedure shit going on.

  3. #2093
    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    Yea I dont, he is using his leverage for political gain in both scenarios. Like you say its just Racism. This is just standard operating procedure shit going on.
    i mean yes, its consistent as in mitch mcconnel doesnt give two shits about norms, legality, constitutionality etc, just whatever will give republicans more power.

    it is consisntent in that way.

    but to try to what aboutism the democrats over this? lol. a laughable concept.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-24-2020 at 01:33 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #2094
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    i mean yes, its consistent as in mitch mcconnel doesnt give two shits about norms, legality, constitutionality etc, just whatever will give republicans more power.

    it is consisntent in that way.

    but to try to what aboutism the democrats over this? lol. a laughable concept.
    I truthfully think I am whataboutism both parties. I dont think those moves are party specific they would happen regardless of whomever is in power at the time, it is the nature of that game, if the green party was in that position they would do the same thing.

    This is coming from a guy born and raised in the deepest blue part of the country by the way. Democrats want to get elected and be in power just as much as republicans and truthfully neither will be putting us first in their needs its just not how it works.

    The real complaint is that an outline wasnt put together for if supreme court judges can be voted in during specific time periods, that should have been what was addressed last time this happened, if there is no rule both sides will exploit it whenever they can.

  5. #2095
    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    I truthfully think I am whataboutism both parties. I dont think those moves are party specific they would happen regardless of whomever is in power at the time, it is the nature of that game, if the green party was in that position they would do the same thing.

    This is coming from a guy born and raised in the deepest blue part of the country by the way. Democrats want to get elected and be in power just as much as republicans and truthfully neither will be putting us first in their needs its just not how it works.

    The real complaint is that an outline wasnt put together for if supreme court judges can be voted in during specific time periods, that should have been what was addressed last time this happened, if there is no rule both sides will exploit it whenever they can.
    i have many issues with democrats.

    they are not actively destroying our democracy in order to maintain power.

    there is no comparison between the power grabs of the last 5 years (wisconisn, NC, FL and others), and any laughably weak and pathetic attempt the democrats have ever tried to do a power grab. the dems give up at the mere suggestions what they are doing isnt fair. the GOP has admitted in court, and on tape, to voter suppression. the GOP has admitted in court and on tape that gerrymadering is designed to suppress votes. the GOP were the ones who changed the rules for supreme court justice approval in the first place, because they couldn't win by the old rules. they were like "fuck it, we can make our own rules so we can win"

    there isn't a referee in this country (or any other), there is only the notion that the country should represent the will of the people. this notion has long since been discarded by the GOP. the GOP just lies, cheats, and steals whatever it can, whenever it can, regardless. and when they can't win, they change the rules. they have only won the popular vote once in the last 30 years. millions more Americans vote for democratic house members than republican ones, yet the house has also been in republican hands far more often simply because of gerrymandering. and the senate? tens of millions more Americans vote for democratic senators every year (this is somewhat by design with the senate though). the GOP is a minority government.

    people like you are going to be shocked, just totally shocked, when trump voids the votes of the cities in red states, has the red state governors appoint electors and has himself sworn in despite losing the election, and democrats will be like "but but but but thats not fair, you can't do that!" and the GOP will just laugh. and have biden arrested. for what? i dont know. it doesn't matter. there is no referee to stop them.

    there is a distinct possibility that trump loses, and still is president on january 21st 2021. he has literally said it himself.

    no sorry i lied, you wont be shocked, you'll be like "yeah well joe biden would have done the same"

    god how fast our country has failed.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-24-2020 at 05:12 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #2096
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    i have many issues with democrats.

    they are not actively destroying our democracy in order to maintain power.

    there is no comparison between the power grabs of the last 5 years (wisconisn, NC, FL and others), and any laughably weak and pathetic attempt the democrats have ever tried to do a power grab. the dems give up at the mere suggestions what they are doing isnt fair. the GOP has admitted in court, and on tape, to voter suppression. the GOP has admitted in court and on tape that gerrymadering is designed to suppress votes. the GOP were the ones who changed the rules for supreme court justice approval in the first place, because they couldn't win by the old rules. they were like "fuck it, we can make our own rules so we can win"

    there isn't a referee in this country (or any other), there is only the notion that the country should represent the will of the people. this notion has long since been discarded by the GOP. the GOP just lies, cheats, and steals whatever it can, whenever it can, regardless. and when they can't win, they change the rules. they have only won the popular vote once in the last 30 years. millions more Americans vote for democratic house members than republican ones, yet the house has also been in republican hands far more often. the GOP is a minority government.

    people like you are going to be shocked, just totally shocked, when trump voids the votes of the cities in red states, has the red state governors appoint electors and has himself sworn in despite losing the election, and democrats will be like "but but but but thats not fair, you can't do that!" and the GOP will just laugh. and have biden arrested. for what? i dont know. it doesn't matter.

    there is a distinct possibility that trump loses, and still is president on january 21st. he has literally said it himself.

    if you think joe biden would do that, i dont know what to say to you.
    I mean I think you are just being a bit blinded by what has happened over the last 8 years with the majorities that the republicans had in the senate and house for a time.

    Remember the Obama administration renewed the patriot act, and I might be wrong but I believe the renewal upped the personal surveillance aspect of that bill. This was the last time the democrats had a majority in everything, I think that is a shining example of the democrats also having an equal interest in control and power.
    Before that in 94 when the democrats were in control again the federal crime bill was established, which is absolutely a peoples suppression and power grab move as an additional example of the democrats being capable and motivated to do the same stupid shit when they have the opportunity to do it as well.

    Trump is a unique case in itself, and the pessimistic side of me sees that in the events of what you are saying, which is not a shocking revelation I can assure you. I would think the real response will end up more along the lines of the country breaking apart, we are very close to that breaking point in history again as it is. That could be peaceful with big chunks like Texas, the West Coast, and the North East all claiming to be independent sovereign countries, or civil unrest and war will break out, I can clearly see how the point of no return is rapidly approaching and a decision like that would more than likely shatter the country in my most drastic level opinion.

  7. #2097
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    Yea I dont, he is using his leverage for political gain in both scenarios. Like you say its just Racism. This is just standard operating procedure shit going on.
    I do wish Democrats would get the jump on underhanded bullshit just once. They?re perpetually playing catch-up.

    The voter suppression has really ramped up lately from Republicans, it does not seem comparable to other modern voter suppression efforts.

    I'll just remind everyone of this quote:

    "Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."

    David Frum, conservative commentator

    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    Trump is a unique case in itself, and the pessimistic side of me sees that in the events of what you are saying, which is not a shocking revelation I can assure you.
    I will also say that I suspect most liberally-minded people see Trump as the most perfected form of American Conservatism, not a unique case. He currently enjoys an approximately 80% approval among republicans, with 66% strongly approving.

    The last round of redistricting, largely driven by REDMAP and some less organized (what a surprise) Democratic efforts, contributed significantly to the intense polarization we see now. Apart from correcting first past the post voting, the best we could do to issue a mandate for coalition governance is create more diverse districts. It would require the creation of more moderate platforms to appeal across the aisle.

    Fun reading for the "both sides" discussion!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP
    And the (as usual, late) Democratic response:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati...ting_Committee
    Last edited by PBSteve; 09-25-2020 at 02:14 AM.

  8. #2098
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    One last thought before I go to bed.

    One perspective on the "Republicans leading the way" narrative (Gerrymandering, supreme court seats, defunding the government... there are a lot of examples) is that it's the logical conclusion of Reagan's "Starve the Beast". The ultimate goal is to erode the institutions and traditions of governance, and shrink the government by damaging it as much as possible.

    You are absolutely correct that both parties suffer from corporate capture. But there is a key difference. Democratic voters generally still believe in "good governance". Democratic lawmakers still operate under the old paradigm of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" corporate capture. The corporations and wealthy elites who support this still believe the existence of the state is is most beneficial to them, and voters are placated by a more coalition platform. This is obviously unattractive to people who believe they've been left out of the payoff (true or not).

    What the GoP has done is really brilliant. They use this disdain from people who feel left out and pessimistic about good governance to turn opinion against the government. Their openly stated goal is to reduce the power of government. The messaging has really gotten to the point that the government = democrats.

    But here's the thing, and I'm going to invoke your "both sides" argument - the GoP has also been bought by corporations. But not for the purpose of under the table corruption, but for the purpose of doing as much damage as possible to the state itself. Ultimately the only thing more powerful than a multinational corporation is the State. The smaller, less effective the state is, the more corporate hegemony can step in to fill the vacuum of power. And it becomes self-perpetuating, because the more dysfunctional you can make the government, the more you can point to the government's dysfunction as an example of government inefficacy. Voters believe they're supporting smaller, more efficient government without the corporate payoffs; in reality GoP politicians are actively sabotaging institutions on behalf of corporate greed.

    And hence, the GoP is always taking the lead on undercutting the legitimacy of traditions and institutions, because it is ultimately their goal to tear down the state. If they can gain power while simultaneously eroding trust, it's two birds with one stone.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  9. #2099
    trump isnt a unique case, he is a symptom of the fact that 40% of the country are totally cool with fascism.

    which, if you study history, is frankly not that surprising.

    republicans have already given up on democracy. it was a means to an ends for them, but thats changed as there supporters have shown they are willing to support anything, as long as it "pwns the libs" they will cheer when trump declares himself president, even if he looses. not because they secretly think he won or whatever, but because they dont care if he won or not.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 09-25-2020 at 02:12 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #2100
    Quote Originally Posted by Florypb505 View Post
    I mean I think you are just being a bit blinded by what has happened over the last 8 years with the majorities that the republicans had in the senate and house for a time.

    Remember the Obama administration renewed the patriot act, and I might be wrong but I believe the renewal upped the personal surveillance aspect of that bill. This was the last time the democrats had a majority in everything, I think that is a shining example of the democrats also having an equal interest in control and power.
    Before that in 94 when the democrats were in control again the federal crime bill was established, which is absolutely a peoples suppression and power grab move as an additional example of the democrats being capable and motivated to do the same stupid shit when they have the opportunity to do it as well.

    Trump is a unique case in itself, and the pessimistic side of me sees that in the events of what you are saying, which is not a shocking revelation I can assure you. I would think the real response will end up more along the lines of the country breaking apart, we are very close to that breaking point in history again as it is. That could be peaceful with big chunks like Texas, the West Coast, and the North East all claiming to be independent sovereign countries, or civil unrest and war will break out, I can clearly see how the point of no return is rapidly approaching and a decision like that would more than likely shatter the country in my most drastic level opinion.
    comparing obama renewing the patriot act to trump telling us he will still be president if he looses.

    yeah, thats a reasonable point.

    JFC people, eye on the ball.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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