Page 122 of 228 FirstFirst ... 2272112120121122123124132172222 ... LastLast
Results 1,211 to 1,220 of 2276

Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    The same thing happened under the Obama administration. Josh already showed you that.

    How exactly do you think the "Trump admin decided to do it?" They passed a policy that says "Under the authority of executive order, we will now separate newborn children from there mothers, and force them to represent themselves in court?"
    no, it didn't. as i have already shown. the way obama dealt with the families was very much different than the way trump has. as stated by the officials who are there, and worked for both presidents, and legal and law enforcement experts familiar with each policy. i already sourced this.

    trump admin decided the law allowed them to do this, so they did. they were not forced to do anything.


    so the solution to the problem is to just stop doing it.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  2. #1212
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    no, it didn't. as i have already shown. the way obama dealt with the families was very much different than the way trump has. as stated by the officials who are there, and worked for both presidents, and legal and law enforcement experts familiar with each policy.

    trump admin decided the law allowed them to do this, so they did. they were not forced to do anything.


    so the solution to the problem is to just stop doing it.

    Let's speed this along... Trump's executive order said exactly the opposite: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...nscript-658639

    What accelerated the quarantine: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...49751/download

    so the solution to the problem is to just stop doing it.
    Do not enforce is not a viable policy. Congress has to actually change something...

  3. #1213
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    Let's speed this along... Trump's executive order said exactly the opposite: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...nscript-658639

    What accelerated the quarantine: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...49751/download



    Do not enforce is not a viable policy. Congress has to actually change something...
    i feel like we are running into a wall like when josh talks about climate change. citing a paper that proves his opponent correct, while claiming it proves he is correct.

    you are citing the EO by trump to inform his executive branch, how to conduct themselves. both making the policy stricter, and loosening the policy again.

    can't get more cut and dry than that. nothing forced them to do it the way they did it. ¯\_(*)_/¯
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #1214
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    i feel like we are running into a wall like when josh talks about climate change. citing a paper that proves his opponent correct, while claiming it proves he is correct.

    you are citing the EO by trump to inform his executive branch, how to conduct themselves. both making the policy stricter, and loosening the policy again.

    can't get more cut and dry than that. nothing forced them to do it the way they did it. ¯\_(*)_/¯
    The order allows families to be detained together; he didn't subjugate the memorandum. Thus, the impetus is placed on congress.

    In Trump's brash way:
    Democrats are the problem. They don*t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13. They can*t win on their terrible policies, so they view them as potential voters!
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...213525764.html

  5. #1215
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,303
    Hey, lets speed this along a lot more Irony: Trump already stopped this months ago, it took him about a week from seeing the problem, the media exploding, thinking there wasn't a good solution, to fixing it. The difference, as I pointed out, was under Obama most of the families were separated, and under Trump all of them were

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...ly-separation/

    That is why it is worthless discussing politics with Gordon. He is still complaining about a problem that was there before Trump, Trump fixed, and he still is complaining. Just #walkaway
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design
    www.j4paintball.com

  6. #1216
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    The order allows families to be detained together; he didn't subjugate the memorandum. Thus, the impetus is placed on congress.

    In Trump's brash way:


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...213525764.html
    Wasn't the problem with the EO that there is a settlement agreement that states the government can't detain children with adults? I'm pretty sure Obama's administration tried to challenge that as well. Also under the law, Under law, the executive branch does not have to detain asylum seekers or those found to be here illegal. This is a choice the executive branch makes. Either way ankle bracelets are cheaper and an effective means to ensuring someone shows up to their asylum hearing. Keeping the people in detention is really just to make them try and give up their claims.

  7. #1217
    Insider
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,303
    Either way ankle bracelets are cheaper and an effective means to ensuring someone shows up to their asylum hearing. Keeping the people in detention is really just to make them try and give up their claims.
    Per the original executive order from Trump the plan was to significantly increase the judges at the border to handle the claims, so the detention time was lowered. Under Obama the detention time often exceeded the 20 day limit, which is why he increased the funding by 3600%.

    Mind you, most of these was 'At the Border' detention, because the people coming across had no where to go, no home, no transportation, nothing but what they had brought with them or that a Coyote had left them with. So if you gave them an ankle bracket and let them go....where would they go? Under Bush they had an in state detention building or 2, and some tents. It was very limited.

    And an increase of border crossings is happening. Per the WaPo:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.901c20fb4afc

    Triple from last year in April (from CNBC):

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/cros...-year-ago.html

    But then, the number is historically down if you also read the news:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/u...eclining-.html

    From the same article:
    "By comparison, monthly border crossings so far this year have ranged from 20,000 to 40,000 people."
    So processing that many people is a significant amount of work - even if it has slowed.
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design
    www.j4paintball.com

  8. #1218
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by d0cwho View Post
    Wasn't the problem with the EO that there is a settlement agreement that states the government can't detain children with adults? I'm pretty sure Obama's administration tried to challenge that as well. Also under the law, Under law, the executive branch does not have to detain asylum seekers or those found to be here illegal. This is a choice the executive branch makes. Either way ankle bracelets are cheaper and an effective means to ensuring someone shows up to their asylum hearing. Keeping the people in detention is really just to make them try and give up their claims.
    The specific immigration law is listed in the memorandum: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

    Asylum seekers (refugees) are not the same as illegal immigrants. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUT...E-94-Pg102.pdf

    I assume you're talking about the Flores agreement: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto...5/17-55208.pdf An EO can't overrule the settlement.


    Keeping the people in detention is really just to make them try and give up their claims.
    What "claims" do they have? To citizenship? Well, not under current law. I mean, if you know you're going to plea out (there's a 20-day window for detention) then what political mechanism reduces your detention? Conviction without trial? Doesn't seem constitutional. Do not enforce? No. So what is it? Congress has to deal with the law.

  9. #1219
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    The specific immigration law is listed in the memorandum: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

    Asylum seekers (refugees) are not the same as illegal immigrants. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUT...E-94-Pg102.pdf

    I assume you're talking about the Flores agreement: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto...5/17-55208.pdf An EO can't overrule the settlement.




    What "claims" do they have? To citizenship? Well, not under current law. I mean, if you know you're going to plea out (there's a 20-day window for detention) then what political mechanism reduces your detention? Conviction without trial? Doesn't seem constitutional. Do not enforce? No. So what is it? Congress has to deal with the law.
    If you have a U.S. child, have been living here for 10 years, and you can show being deported will cause hardship to that child you are allowed to remain in the U.S. I did this for three months while in law school, that was the claim we always dealt with in addition to asylum claims made after they were caught. And if someone is accused of breaking the law, you can detain them while they away trial because they could be a flight-risk. It's constitutional.

    If that's the law the EO cites then no wonder this admin is a bunch of amateurs:

    (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
    Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

    That's a criminal statute. 8 U.S. Code § 1329 of that part grants jurisdiction to the federal district courts. Therefore, you can only fine or imprison them after a federal criminal court finds them guilty of violating the law. That doesn't say you need to immediately imprison immigrants caught crossing the border illegally. It also gives the court the option of either fining them or imprisonment. Further, the court or the prosecutor can decide whether the person shall remain out of custody until his or her trial (i.e. bail). I don't have time to go dig it out, but based on my experience, I'm assuming the executive branch has option under the law to either charge the illegal alien under this statute or take them through removal proceedings before an administrative law judge given that most of the cases are handled by Administrative Law Judges, not federal courts because it's cheaper and more efficient. If they didn't have that option, the ALJ's wouldn't exist.

  10. #1220
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Per the original executive order from Trump the plan was to significantly increase the judges at the border to handle the claims, so the detention time was lowered. Under Obama the detention time often exceeded the 20 day limit, which is why he increased the funding by 3600%.

    Mind you, most of these was 'At the Border' detention, because the people coming across had no where to go, no home, no transportation, nothing but what they had brought with them or that a Coyote had left them with. So if you gave them an ankle bracket and let them go....where would they go? Under Bush they had an in state detention building or 2, and some tents. It was very limited.

    And an increase of border crossings is happening. Per the WaPo:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.901c20fb4afc

    Triple from last year in April (from CNBC):

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/cros...-year-ago.html

    But then, the number is historically down if you also read the news:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/u...eclining-.html

    From the same article:

    So processing that many people is a significant amount of work - even if it has slowed.
    They definitely need more ALJs. The back log is insane.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •