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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #2171
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer!

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  2. #2172
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    I don?t have the energy for a long response and discussion with you right now, but my point is that from healthcare, to housing, to employment, to retirement, a significant portion of middle-class entitlements come at the expense of the working class.

    The Petite bourgeoisie has always used the State to create their wealth.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ons-by-income/

    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...insurance-work

    https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme

    Just to get you started.
    the middle class is the working class.

    do you mean the poor? or a more capitalist palatable term "the working poor"
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #2173
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    so just to be sure, you are in favor of killing the middle class so we will have the working poor (incomes up to maybe 50k/year), and then the rich (incomes above 250k), and no one in between? cause thats what "killing the middle class means. it means all of this *waves hands around* is gone. it means next stop, feudalism.
    Using your definition of middle class, annual income 50k-250k, and Wikipedia?s definition for working class:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    When used non-academically in the United States, however, it often refers to a section of society dependent on physical labour, especially when compensated with an hourly wage (for certain types of science, as well as journalistic or political analysis). For example, the working class is loosely defined as those without college degrees.[4] Working-class occupations are then categorized into four groups: unskilled labourers, artisans, outworkers, and factory workers.[5][page needed]
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    the middle class is the working class.

    do you mean the poor? or a more capitalist palatable term "the working poor"
    Whatever you want to call the people who make the middle class the "middle".
    Last edited by PBSteve; 12-01-2020 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #2174
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    Using your definition of middle class, annual income 50k-250k, and Wikipedia?s definition for working class:





    Whatever you want to call the people who make the middle class the "middle".
    so you mean the poor or working poor then.

    i mean sure. we all live off the poor. always have. thats what capitalism does. thats literally its key feature.

    instead of making us all poor, the correct answer is to try to pull folks up from the working poor, to middle class. for that we need to tax the rich, and give it to the poor. it really is that simple. education, homes, food, unemployment insurance, social safety net etc.

    instead, what we are doing is forcing more and more folks from the middle class, into the working poor.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 12-02-2020 at 01:30 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  5. #2175
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    Correct. Creating a system that elevates the poor to the middle class is how you create a robust middle class.

    Trying to cast the current members of the middle class in amber is stagnation. It?s just a government-established aristocracy, no better than the actual aristocracy. The middle class doesn?t need more help - the people on the bottom need it the most.

    The (particularly democratic) obsession with handouts to the middle class is the wrong approach. Of course, the GoP panders too.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 12-02-2020 at 06:37 PM.

  6. #2176
    While i have no problems with the 2% tax of the wealthiest, you are looking at the solution and not what the problem is. It isn't capitalism it isn't the taxation of the rich, it is elevating the menial jobs to real jobs that can create the viable and stable middle class. It isn't just handing them money, or taxing them less, you have to lift them up, and show them the paths.

    This is where i do shuck my liberal leanings and will say that the socioeconomic gap is the problem. There is no impetus on education, no standards of wanting an education, and no consideration of wanting to do more than where you are. Looking at the racial divide, less is put on improving one's life versus the deadend means of staying in the ghetto. Whether that is the actual laws, people or system that keeps them down, or it is the media propagating actual idiots that make quick money rither through the illegal drug trade, playing sports or being the next music superstar.

    So while squeezing the middle and lower classes is the tactics of the rich(why should tbey spend their money?), is it because they stay where they are from choice, from lack of opportunities or because the class system always demands having a top and bottom?

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