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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #1961
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

    ...

    It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

    -George Washington, 1796 Farewell Address

  2. #1962
    "I*ve had dinner with John Bolton a couple times. I*ve met him two or three times, and if this passage in the book is true, and this is actually what he*s intending, it*s not the John Bolton I thought I knew, this kind of disloyalty."

    Rush Limbaugh, saying the quiet part out loud.

    he doesn't care if what john bolton says is true, only that telling the truth, is 'disloyal'

    the modern republican party.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #1963
    Insider Pump Scout's Avatar
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    Quick question - does anyone actually think Mike Pence is a better choice for the big desk? Or is Phase 2 to impeach him as well, to place Nancy Pelosi in the White House?

  4. #1964
    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    Quick question - does anyone actually think Mike Pence is a better choice for the big desk? Or is Phase 2 to impeach him as well, to place Nancy Pelosi in the White House?
    that depends on if mike pence has also committed felonies or not.

    based on the evidence so far, he probably has. going as far back as flynn and lying to the fbi.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  5. #1965
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    Quick question - does anyone actually think Mike Pence is a better choice for the big desk? Or is Phase 2 to impeach him as well, to place Nancy Pelosi in the White House?
    No. But I don?t want to see a circumstance where both parties are using the state to extort foreign governments for campaign assistance, do you?
    Last edited by PBSteve; 01-28-2020 at 02:06 AM.

  6. #1966
    Quote Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
    Quick question - does anyone actually think Mike Pence is a better choice for the big desk? Or is Phase 2 to impeach him as well, to place Nancy Pelosi in the White House?
    Lesser of 2 evils and the simple fact that it would be a shorter time for him to really fuck up anything worse. With the spotlight already on him for his culpability or knowledge of trump's affairs, but not falling in the dismissal, he would walk a very narrow path.

    To impeach Pence if trump is removed would be totally dismissed as vendetta and not taken seriously, unless he did anything worse in a far lesser time(like being filmed murdering someone on the white house lawn), and the speed at which congress moves would not even come close. If removal of trump happens, we would only have really, 8-9 months. Hell, its taken 5months to get to the Senate trial and they are still debating the structure of the trial.

    And i do believe that DNC and Pelosi saying that she is doing this for the country and not for any gain, as if it was to take the presidency, then Pence would have been included in on the original impeachment papers

  7. #1967
    sadly the optics of removing pence, even if he is a multiple felon (and at this point i think we already know that), are bad.

    one of those disagreements between what is politically the right thing to do, and the legally right thing to do. Nunes, mcconnell, barr, and muvainey its pretty clear they are implicated as well. they honestly all should be out. but we all know that isnt actually going to happen. what do you do when basically the entire leadership of a political party has committed campaign finance felonies or obstruction of justice?

    the only real solution here is electoral. i mean i know im a pinko leftist or whatever, but i see no reason to vote for a republican in any race ever, for the foreseeable future. i hope a lot of other americans agree with that. they can't be trusted with even the basic operation of the government, never mind policy.

    the trump era is sure interesting. who knew that fucking john bolton, and jeff sessions would look good after this?

    and yet ... they do. men of conviction who despite being dead fucking wrong on policy after policy, at least could be trusted with the rule of law.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 01-29-2020 at 11:39 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  8. #1968
    What i find baffling is that so many people are dead set against the left, the liberal, the democrat, yet they hold no moral, ethical or conscious effort to uphold those same rules for the right. Popular voting is just that, a popularity contest. But when it comes testicular fortitude of doing not only the good thing, but the legal, ethical, & moral thing; there are exceptions, blindspots, and i don't know how some can look at themselves in the mirror.

    It's the double standard. A dem gets caught cheating on a wife & they are vilified. A rep does the same thing, and he is lauded as virile. Taking a ride on a military transport. 1 is "of the people", the other is "joy riding on the government's tit". I am not niave to know that the spin doctors do their job very well, but its the public that is too stupefied to see past the rhetoric & bullshit of hypocrisy

  9. #1969
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    What i find baffling is that so many people are dead set against the left, the liberal, the democrat, yet they hold no moral, ethical or conscious effort to uphold those same rules for the right. Popular voting is just that, a popularity contest. But when it comes testicular fortitude of doing not only the good thing, but the legal, ethical, & moral thing; there are exceptions, blindspots, and i don't know how some can look at themselves in the mirror.

    It's the double standard. A dem gets caught cheating on a wife & they are vilified. A rep does the same thing, and he is lauded as virile. Taking a ride on a military transport. 1 is "of the people", the other is "joy riding on the government's tit". I am not niave to know that the spin doctors do their job very well, but its the public that is too stupefied to see past the rhetoric & bullshit of hypocrisy
    its because they don't actually care about democracy or the rule of law, they are so scared to loose there status in society, being able to tell everyone what to do all the time. it was always a lie, it just has taken this long for it to manifest because of the dominate upper/middle class white male christian voting block was/is for the last 100 years.

    as the electoral power fades, they will reject more and more the notion of democracy.

    we see this more and more over the last 2 decades until even in court cases, in NC and other places, the GOP has outright said, we are trying to stop people from voting. leaked documents regarding gerrymandering, voter ID, over and over again, the GOP has decided it isn't going to fight on policy, its going to fight by restricting voting.

    just today, dershowitz said that ANYTHING the president does in pursuit of being reelected is national security related and thus can't be prosecuted.

    they don't care. they only cared about democracy as long as it returned to them the legitimacy they needed to tell everyone what to do.

    now that democracy has turned against them, they are increasingly just stating outright that democracy isn't what they want.

    i truly believe that democracy itself is on the ballot in 2020. this is a big reason why i dont actually care who dems pick (despite being my commie pinko libtard), because if trump wins again, i dont think america will remain a representative democracy anymore.

    even if trump loses, we are going to have a constitutional crisis. he will NEVER admit he lost. and some republicans will side with him. de-legitimizing the election results, with possible violence resulting.

    may you live in interesting times.

    we are learning the lesson the boomers didn't, but there parents knew because they fraught and died for ... democracy is inherently unstable and at any time is susceptible to falling into dictatorship.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 01-30-2020 at 04:38 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #1970
    Insider AndrewTheWookie's Avatar
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    If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.
    - David Frum
    Last edited by AndrewTheWookie; 01-30-2020 at 05:08 PM.
    I don't know, fly casual

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