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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #1391
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    Oh look, Gordon found an anti trump opinion piece. Wow. So.....oh crap, that doesn't take any effort what so ever. Really? What tripe.

    How about actually looking for why some people voted for Trump?

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...rump/91588328/

    Mercy Stika and Nancy Poindexter agree. The women said they are Hispanics and *Bible-believing Christians* who voted for Trump in the primary and will vote for him again in November.

    *We*re here to support Trump and we believe he*s going to make history,* Poindexter said. *Everybody*s ready for a change. We believe Trump is going to be that change.*

    Stika said this is the second time she*s seen Trump speak in Arizona.

    *I wanted to see him again,* Stika said, laughing. *So we drove up here early. Go Trump!*

    They showed off their Trump buttons and their red Trump/Pence shirts with the now-famous campaign tagline: *Make America Great Again.*

    Poindexter said that any talk of Trump being racist is *just politics.*

    *He has given jobs for every race,* he said.

    *Whether we*re Hispanic, we*re black, I*ve talked to many African-Americans who are Bible-believing Christians who are voting for Trump,* she said, *because we know that the only time the politicians come and the Democrats come and say, *We want your vote,* is during voting season, but when it*s over nothing gets changed.*

    Poindexter said she was born in California and her dad is from Arizona. She supports Trump*s plan for a border wall.
    I can find this type of stuff for DAYS. More blacks voted for Trump than did vote for Romney. Support for Trump by the black community is over 30%. Even with a 90%+ negative news bias. And people like you ranting about how it is all racism.

    But, like the article I first replied on, the one touting the 8% far Left, the whitest group politically in America is the 8% who are a bunch of PC minded, liberal, educated and angry people like yourself who feel fine calling half the US racist - even if a vast majority abhor it, and the vast majority are sick of it. 80% are.

    Sorry your opinion piece is crap.
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  2. #1392
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    Josh (and others), you might enjoy playing with this tool from Fivethirtyeight ...
    Oh! Nice! Yep, I am all ready for our Robot Overlords to take control of this mess. Or, for more parties. Who doesn't like more parties? Gordon?
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  3. #1393
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    Kevin McCray has made a business out of traveling America selling his goods at the GOP presidential candidate's events.

    He flew in from Ohio for Trump's rally. McCray lined up buttons with Donald Trump and Melania Trump's likeness, and T-shirts and hats with Trump campaign slogans.

    One of his newest T-shirts reads: "Deplorable Lives Matter," a spoof mixing the Black Lives Matter movement with Clinton's comment characterizing some Trump supporters as a *basket of deplorables.*

    McCray said he's voting for Trump because "he'll run the country like a business, and that's a good thing."

    When people ask him why an African-American such as himself would vote for Trump, he says: "Look in the mirror and ask yourself what Trump can do for you and what you want in a candidate. That's what really matters."
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  4. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    Josh (and others), you might enjoy playing with this tool from Fivethirtyeight where you can see the general effects of different redistricting methods that could be put into place to dilute (or heighten) the effects of gerrymandering:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ithmic-compact

    It is perhaps one of my favorite articles they've printed. I've selected the link where you can see how the algorithm method (similar to your Brown University article) plays out. And it turns out it is not necessarily a bad choice. As a mostly moderate, I favor maximizing the number of competitive races myself, but I can't argue with the simplicity of the compact algorithm.
    I liked this, but am surprised by how close the current setup is the the compact setup. It does show what we already knew - districting in general has led to net GOP gain, but that gain is only between 3 and 10 seats in the house.

    I think the Senate is a bigger issue:
    Democratic senators represent more Americans than Republican senators

    Assigning each senator half their state's population would mean the 49 Democratic senators represent ~40 million more people than Republicans.



    But it's not like we're going to entirely redo the bicameral legislature.
    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  5. #1395
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Oh look, Gordon found an anti trump opinion piece. Wow. So.....oh crap, that doesn't take any effort what so ever. Really? What tripe.
    #1: wasn't me
    #2: calling something an anti-trump opinion piece doesn't negate or disprove or provide a valid counter argument in any way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    also not a counter point.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #1396
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Oh look, Gordon found an anti trump opinion piece. Wow. So.....oh crap, that doesn't take any effort what so ever. Really? What tripe.

    How about actually looking for why some people voted for Trump?

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...rump/91588328/



    I can find this type of stuff for DAYS. More blacks voted for Trump than did vote for Romney. Support for Trump by the black community is over 30%. Even with a 90%+ negative news bias. And people like you ranting about how it is all racism.

    But, like the article I first replied on, the one touting the 8% far Left, the whitest group politically in America is the 8% who are a bunch of PC minded, liberal, educated and angry people like yourself who feel fine calling half the US racist - even if a vast majority abhor it, and the vast majority are sick of it. 80% are.

    Sorry your opinion piece is crap.
    this is flat out, totally and completely ... false. 88% of black voters voted for Hillary.

    rassmusin polls have been shit for a decade, trumps popularity among African Americans has been in the single digits for years : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9630f035dc0b


    your argument is also based on the false premises that people vote for and support who isn't against them. as we know, this is also totally and completely, false. people vote against there best interests all the time.


    in conclusion, you, as usual, are full of shit, by any route, logic or measure.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 11-20-2018 at 01:59 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  7. #1397
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    And then all of this, which had responses but ended with your question, "Have we not been talking about pre-trial detainment?"

    Because I thought we were talking about pre-trial detainment, and am very lost about the responses from Irony and Josh.

    EDIT: Perhaps I phrased this all wrong. I liked the questions. I really can't follow where the answers are going. I think it's a worthwhile conversation to continue.
    I asked those questions because if a person doesn't answer them with a "yes" then they either aren't being honest or misunderstand the law. To get straight to the point, the answer is yes to all these questions. There can be a disagreement in degree, i.e. how much discretion the president has etc., but historical practice suggests pretty strongly the president has a wide range of discretion on how to enforce immigration laws.

    Josh keeps suggesting Obama and Trump did the same thing. Did both have detainment policies...yes. One policy involved detaining families together, which was subsequently disallowed (Obama). The other policy involved separating children and parents as the rule, rather than the exception to the rule (Trump). I don't know how you logically come to the conclusion they are the same. He also suggests there is an "conflation" of the pre-detainment and zero-tolerance. Those issues are two sides of the same coin. Can't really have one without the other.

    Regarding the EO issue. Irony was correctly pointing out that the Executive Order Trump signed was barring family separation which was the result of an internal DOJ order put into effect by Sessions. I was incorrectly conflating the two documents.

  8. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    I liked this, but am surprised by how close the current setup is the the compact setup. It does show what we already knew - districting in general has led to net GOP gain, but that gain is only between 3 and 10 seats in the house.

    I think the Senate is a bigger issue:
    Democratic senators represent more Americans than Republican senators

    Assigning each senator half their state's population would mean the 49 Democratic senators represent ~40 million more people than Republicans.



    But it's not like we're going to entirely redo the bicameral legislature.
    I think its actually beneficial and important for areas with smaller communities to have representation in the Senate. The problem is the house doesn't reflect the realities of the electorate like it should.

  9. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
    I liked this, but am surprised by how close the current setup is the the compact setup. It does show what we already knew - districting in general has led to net GOP gain, but that gain is only between 3 and 10 seats in the house.

    I think the Senate is a bigger issue:
    Democratic senators represent more Americans than Republican senators

    Assigning each senator half their state's population would mean the 49 Democratic senators represent ~40 million more people than Republicans.



    But it's not like we're going to entirely redo the bicameral legislature.
    The Senate is where the issue of partisanship and the battle of urban Democrats and rural Republicans most advantages land mass over population. I don't think this is an issue that will resolve until the poles of the party change (business and tech fully enters the democratic party while populism fully consumes the republican party) - and maybe not even then.

    Regarding current vs. compact, it's interesting because what we see is that Democrats gerrymandering is roughly counteracting what Republicans are doing. For example, if you look at my state of North Carolina, you can see that the current map and the republican gerrymandered map most closely align. But similar effects in Maryland and Illinois balance that out. Gerrymandering is a real problem, but so is also the fact that democratic voters consolidate in ways that they can't get proportional representation (a democratic house or senate member is likely to represent more Democrats than a Republican house or senate member is to represent Republicans).

    Republicans would never go for proportional representation, as there are significantly more Democrats in the United States.

    EDIT: In just a quick scan, South Carolina and Alabama also have current maps that equally match the republican gerrymander match.
    Last edited by Unfated33; 11-20-2018 at 02:17 PM.

  10. #1400
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    "this is flat out, totally and completely ... false."
    Quotes from people who say why they voted for Trump is flat out and completely false?

    The 8% on the far left who are not the Exhausted Moderates are not the whitest collection in that study?

    No, both of those are truths man. I didn't make up the study, nor did I make up these quotes.

    There isn't a 30%+ number of black people supporting Trump?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/1013212002/

    Even as cable news networks debate reports of the existence of a recording of President Donald Trump using a racial slur, a new poll from Rasmussen Reports says that the president's approval rating among African-Americans is at 36 percent, nearly double his support at this time last year.

    "Today's @realDonaldTrump approval ratings among black voters: 36%," Rasmussen said in a tweet. "This day last year: 19%."

    That is a staggeringly high number for a man who only won 8 percent of the African-American vote in 2016.
    It is 2018. Try to keep up.
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