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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by UV Halo View Post
    Here's a great example of the news and social media cycle misleading folks: How many of you have heard or even possibly repeated '18 school shootings so far this year'?

    I heard it for the first time from my friend I share the office with. He was surprised and said "That's a lot". I heard that and my response was "that doesn't sound right, I know for sure we haven't had 18 of these types of events. What counts in that number?" He was unable to answer. After a little sleuthing I found out (just as the same time that the Washington Post ran an article on it. To sum up what I found, out of 18 of those shootings:

    - Eight had zero injuries or killed (and as best I can tell, nobody was targeted, i.e. appeared to be taking a shot/s at a building, etc).
    - Four had single injuries
    - Two were single suicides (one by a student, another by an adult who stopped in a school parking lot in the evening).
    - Two had single killings
    - Three had multiple killed / wounded (oddly though, a middle school shooting with five injuries was listed as accidental)
    Bad information is not "misleading" information. The media isn't an infallible source of information. The washington post corrected the error. What's the problem at this point?

  2. #582
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    Let me be clear in saying that none of those events are good.

    My problem with the "18 School Shootings this year", being brandished in the immediate aftermath of yesterday's attack is that it is misleading. It is meant to shock and astound like it did to my coworker, and even to me at first. Also, I'm fairly certain that most people would not consider all of those events as "school shootings". For example, if somebody accidentally discharges a gun in their home, they usually don't label it a "Shooting" unless someone was injured/killed. The problem of reporting stems from the fact that a lot of major news and social media outlets took the 18 number from a "Everytown for Gun Safety" tweet and ran with it, without even looking into their basis for counting (which they publish, as being: any discharge of a firearm on school grounds, open or closed, in-season or not).

    Any news organization worth their chops should research any such number before running it as a headline. If it's something I sorted out within an hour of receiving the information (I'm not a journalist by any means), then for any professional journalist that's negligence at best. The fact that this has all been uncovered hours ago and not explained by organizations still running the headline (Time, The Guardian, Politico, CNBC, ABC) shows intent. NPR, never even ran it, however they did cover (more appropriately) what most people think of as school shootings.

    I don't know if the Washington Post initially had this problem, I only specifically mentioned them earlier because I stumbled across their article as I was finishing researching the number myself. I don't know how this forum looks to others but, for some reason I can't see the link I included unless I mouse over it. I'll color it for clarity.
    Last edited by UV Halo; 02-15-2018 at 08:40 PM. Reason: underlining link as color doesn't work

  3. #583
    I see where you are coming from. I think the rush to report in the 24 hour news cycle causes people to be lazy. It's definitely a big problem.

  4. #584
    Insider Unfated33's Avatar
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    I think the NPR article makes a good point that I worry about, which is that regardless of how many or how few there have been, we're currently in danger of normalizing an unfeeling response to school shootings. You only have to look a few dozen pages earlier in this thread to read that school shootings are publicized because politicians benefit from a crisis or scandal.

    School shootings are domestic terrorism. They impact thousands of lives more than just who was hurt or killed in the act. For Broward County, you have alone just 3000 kids in the school, plus their 6000 parents, plus another 3000 kids getting ready to promote into the school over the next few years, and more thousands of siblings, cousins, friends, and neighbors. Acting like the terror isn't happening, or wouldn't happen if it just wasn't on the news, is unproductive. The NRA fights even policies that a supermajority of Americans agree on, like closing loopholes. And with our broken system of representation, their voice does matter more than thousands or millions of citizens.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    School shootings are domestic terrorism. They impact thousands of lives more than just who was hurt or killed in the act. For Broward County, you have alone just 3000 kids in the school, plus their 6000 parents, plus another 3000 kids getting ready to promote into the school over the next few years, and more thousands of siblings, cousins, friends, and neighbors. Acting like the terror isn't happening, or wouldn't happen if it just wasn't on the news, is unproductive. The NRA fights even policies that a supermajority of Americans agree on, like closing loopholes. And with our broken system of representation, their voice does matter more than thousands or millions of citizens.
    I actually just finished a book by Francis Fukuyama "Political Order and Political Decay" and one of the larger points he makes at the end of the book is that the Madisonian Model of government (our government's model) is actually outdated for our current political, economic, and global environment. His point is that the system has too many "veto points" allowing a small minority to basically stop anything from moving forward, such as use of the Court's to make policy or an open primary system. This problem is further exacerbated when you have serious partisan politics injected into the system or have political parties acting like those found in parliamentary systems. Frankly, I think he may have a point just looking at the issues we currently face. We have a Congress that can't pass legislation on extremely popular positions (citizenship for DACA, gun control) because we have a majority party (that is really a minority) that is beholden to an extremely small minority within it. I'm not advocating a British style system (tyranny of the majority), but somethings got to change in how our system is designed. Isn't hasn't been working well for the last 20 years and is only getting worse.

  6. #586
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    I agree with the NPR article, and they are demonstrating just how these types of events should be reported.

  7. #587
    can we all agree that one school shooting is too many?

    cause really, 18 or 1 .... doesn't fucking matter. 1 is too many. its a stupid point UV, time to drop the "liberal media" bullshit.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfated33 View Post
    I think the NPR article makes a good point that I worry about, which is that regardless of how many or how few there have been, we're currently in danger of normalizing an unfeeling response to school shootings. You only have to look a few dozen pages earlier in this thread to read that school shootings are publicized because politicians benefit from a crisis or scandal.

    School shootings are domestic terrorism. They impact thousands of lives more than just who was hurt or killed in the act. For Broward County, you have alone just 3000 kids in the school, plus their 6000 parents, plus another 3000 kids getting ready to promote into the school over the next few years, and more thousands of siblings, cousins, friends, and neighbors. Acting like the terror isn't happening, or wouldn't happen if it just wasn't on the news, is unproductive. The NRA fights even policies that a supermajority of Americans agree on, like closing loopholes. And with our broken system of representation, their voice does matter more than thousands or millions of citizens.
    normalizing?

    this is the new normal, has been since sandy hook.

    we will do nothing, and more children will die for someone's hobby. this is america, where someone's hobby is more important than children's lives. its like if paintball regularly killed dozens of people, and we changed nothing about it for years on end, simply ok with the fact that the bodies are sacking up.

    i think gun control will only happen in this country once black people start open carrying assault rifles. no, im not kidding.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 02-16-2018 at 11:17 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #589
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    Yes, I agree any school shooting (as in a mass shooting conducted at a school), is too many. I'm not wading into the gun control debate. Honestly, you and I may have a difference of opinion just exactly what would work (I'm not sure if we do), that's not my point. My point is that people need facts before they form opinions and decide on a course of action. Even in this social media age, the press fills a critical role in this and we should expect accuracy in their reporting and not sensationalism.

    I did not set out to single out any segment of the media in these attacks. I came across a surprising number, found out the facts behind them and after my work was done, I did a search to see who was carrying that as a headline and that resulted in the list of outlets I included (they were all literally in the first two pages of results). If that makes me someone carrying an anti "liberal media" shtick in your eyes, I think you need to check your perspective.
    Last edited by UV Halo; 02-16-2018 at 12:02 PM. Reason: readability and clarity

  10. #590
    metrics are metrics. if you disagree with that metric, feel free to define a new one.

    the definition of words is arbitrary, they are all made up. they only work when we all agree on them.

    by that definition, we have had 18 school shootings since 2018. that is a fact. if you don't think that school shootings should cover you know ... school shootings ... then make a new metric up to track.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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