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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #1011
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    I think the GOP isn't serving racists, it's USING the racist tendency of their electorate to advance what is largely aplatform of crony capitalism. The policies themselves aren't generally racist, though they do disproportionately benefit the rich.
    As an outside observer, this is what I see and feel.
    Do you realize that is a narrative created by the media here in the US? If you read the original JournoList forum posts you could easily see that they both work a narrative and actively try and hide things that might hurt their party. The racist line of reasoning was part of why they pushed for Obama originally. They knew they could just call anyone that disagreed with them a racist.

    It worked.

    Spencer Ackerman, Washington Independent:

    And I think this threads the needle. If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they've put upon us. Instead, take one of them--Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares--and call them racists. Ask: why do they have such a deep-seated problem with a black politician who unites the country? What lurks behind those problems? This makes *them* sputter with rage, which in turn leads to overreaction and self-destruction.

    Mark Schmitt: American Prospect.

    "Calling Fred Barnes a racist doesn't further the argument, and not just because Juan Williams is his new black friend, but because that makes it all about character. The goal is to get to the point where you can contrast some _thing_--Obama's substantive agenda--with this crap." . . .

    Ackerman "Kevin, I'm not saying OBAMA should do this. I'm saying WE should do this."

    Others went further. According to records obtained by The Daily Caller, at several points during the 2008 presidential campaign a group of liberal journalists took radical steps to protect their favored candidate. Employees of news organizations including Time, Politico, the Huffington Post, the Baltimore Sun, the Guardian, Salon and the New Republic participated in outpourings of anger over how Obama had been treated in the media, and in some cases plotted to fix the damage.
    Our media actively call the right racist deliberately. It is pre-planned.

    I understand if people see that and believe it. It is the narrative. But it is incorrect.
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  2. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Obama on why he increased the budget for the camps and started locking up children.



    So, Obama is Evil. Got it. Wait. Trump. Because when Obama did it the news held back the pictures that were taken in 2014, and then when they were released in 2018 the news put it everywhere. Funny that.

    Actually, you are just fucking clueless as to WHY.

    The WHY has to do with the fact that Obama did it as a deterrent to future border crossers. He wanted to stop families from crossing and bringing their family which often allowed them special treatment - which meant some strangers would take pay to fake being a family so a parent could get a kid across the border when they couldn't. He wanted families to stay back.

    Taking the kids away comes from the parents immediately being felons, and now going to court. They were separated because the parents are going through the court system in an attempt to fix the longer than 20 day waiting list Obama had in place.

    Gordon, stop proving how clueless you are about every fucking thing. Do some research. Put down Kool-aid. And the forums. Because you SUCK at them.
    you are factually incorrect. obama is not the source of our current child concentration camps. that is simply factually, incorrect. https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/im...milies-n884856

    i'm sorry.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 10-25-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Do you realize that is a narrative created by the media here in the US? If you read the original JournoList forum posts you could easily see that they both work a narrative and actively try and hide things that might hurt their party. The racist line of reasoning was part of why they pushed for Obama originally. They knew they could just call anyone that disagreed with them a racist.

    It worked.



    Our media actively call the right racist deliberately. It is pre-planned.

    I understand if people see that and believe it. It is the narrative. But it is incorrect.
    the right doesn't need any help from the media proclaiming its racism. its right there in every policy they argue for. they also admit it outright, in court.

    as we have detailed in this thread, you do not have an counter point to this claim. if you want to defend your position, you are going to have show how racism isn't either a motivation, or a justification for most GOP policies. in this case, why giving white rich dudes is a-ok, but its a crisis to give brown poeple money.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 10-25-2018 at 11:25 AM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #1014
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    But that has to be the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while
    No, it is simply a hole in your ability to understand other people.

    The old canard was the Right thinks the Left is stupid, the Left thinks the Right is Evil. Gordon might want to look at this also.

    As I have explained at length before, using the Moral Foundations, is that the Left is basically colorblind to 3 of the 5 basic Moral Foundations (Liberty being the 6th.)

    This is something that you cannot morally understand, so you fill it in as evil.

    ALSO, since we are Tribal people, your tribe has made Race a 'Sacred Item' - and hence, like the Bible is infallible, those who disagree with your position are Sinners. Though in this case, racists, since race is sacred to you.

    Since you can not comprehend WHY people would act in a morally different way than you understand things, you just consider them racists. Just like a far right religious person would consider you a sinner.

    You are not right though.

    They are not evil. You are not evil.

    Calling the other side evil or racist internally is based on nothing more complex, emotionally or even with internal chemicals, than hating a different sports team.

    I comes from you not being very aware of anything outside of your tribe. It is insular, close minded. Just as any religion can be. Or tribe.

    It has a definite genetic purpose. It is good that there is a conservative side and a liberal side. They both have very positive effects on a complex society.

    But no side is evil, just ignorant of the other side. All you are repeating is that you are blind to the whole of human possibilities. You points are not bred from experience, but judgement.
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  5. #1015
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    the right doesn't need any help from the media proclaiming its racism.
    It isn't proclaiming anything of the sort, and for the vast majority, (outside of fringes both sides have) THEY ARE NOT RACISTS.

    Your belief that they are is a flaw in your reasoning. See above.

    You can keep repeating the moon is made of cheese. That is all you are doing.

    It doesn't make it so. I just shows how you are ignorant, insular and judgemental.

    Maybe just mental. Ha!
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  6. #1016
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    obama is not the source of our current child concentration camps
    Please, find where I said he was the source. Can you fucking reply with using a strawman? Reading comprehension. How many times do I need to say this? Why do you even Forum?

    HE EXPANDED IT. Dumbass. No, he didn't start it. He increased the budget 3600%. And made a lot more rules:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/th...esident-trump/

    "When Barack Obama took office after his 2008 election, he inherited a budding deportation apparatus with its roots in the imagination of the *War on Terror* reactionaries who created the Office of Homeland Security in 2001 (later the Department of Homeland Security). When he leaves office he will leave behind to his successor the most sophisticated and well-funded human-expulsion machine in the history of the country.

    In his first two years, newly appointed Director of the Office of Homeland Security Tom Ridge expanded the purview of his department to include an immigration enforcement plan that sought to achieve a *100% removal rate* of the undocumented population in the United States by seeing to the drafting of a document that came to shape the next 15 years, *ENDGAME Office of Detention and Removal Strategic Plan.* At the time, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (later broken up into the Citizenship and Immigration Services, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Customs and Border Protection) had approximately 26,000 agents and $4.9 billion. It was an enormous leap from when ICE was previously housed within Department of Justice but nothing like what it grew to be today.

    Instead of reversing that architecture and disavowing that plan, President Obama turbocharged it. To pay for the ballooning enforcement-first approach, the budget for immigration enforcement grew 300 percent from the resources given at the time of its founding under Bush to $18 billion annually, more than all other federal law-enforcement agencies* budget combined.

    Before the end of his first term in office, the Obama administration had taken a small program developed in George W. Bush*s last days that aimed to turn local police into *force multipliers* and expanded it by about 3,600 percent. The Secure Communities program that DHS Secretary Jeh Charles Johnson described as causing *hostility to enforcement of immigration laws* existed in only 14 counties under Bush, but by the end of 2009 it spread to 88 counties. By 2013, it was active in all 3,181 US jurisdictions. It was eventually scrapped in 2014 and replaced with a rebranded Priority Enforcement Program."
    President Obama doubled the number of people being prosecuted for reentry by expanding Bush*s border-court system, Operation Streamline, which tries up to 70 people per day in a cattle line of sentences. The experiment went from three jurisdictions in 2008 to every single border sector except California by 2010. From the time of its invention in 2005 to just four years later in 2009, Streamline sent over 209,000 individuals to serve federal prison sentences for no reason other than crossing the border.

    By April 2014, immigration authorities scanned a total of 32 million sets of fingerprints, a number three times the undocumented population and equivalent to 10 percent of the entire US population. In fiscal year 2012, the height of its deportation quota pursuit, ICE processed 9 million prints, matching 436,000 submitted by local law enforcement, and issued detainers (a practice largely abandoned now due to constitutional concerns) for over a quarter-million of those it identified.
    HUGE expansion.

    As for the change:

    The policy was unique to the Trump administration. Previous administrations did not, as a general principle, separate all families crossing the U.S. border illegally.
    Previously they did separate the families, just not ALL of them. The reason was external - Trump prosecuted ALL families coming across - Obama/Bush just prosecuted MOST of the families coming across the border. This resulted in all of the kids being separated, not most.

    The reason for the separation is not about trying to separate the families, it is about trying to prosecute ALL of the border crossers.

    But no - you return to it is all racism and hating kids. It had nothing to do with it, and guess what - He reversed the law quickly so families with their kids all get to go to court together.

    And reports from these facilities show the separation is short, and people are treated humanly.

    But you act as if Trump is evil.

    What ignorance.
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  7. #1017
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    These are the people you're insisting aren't racist or mysogynistic.
    Wanting to lock up a person who they felt deserved jail time isn't being racist. And...ah....isn't hillary a non color? Or is she an Elizabeth Warren Native? On a funny side note, Richard Shepler found out he is not pure Aryan stock, and is far less white than Elizabeth Warren. I guess he is upset about that.

    That really is a silly statement. Didn't a Bernie Bro go and shoot up a bunch of republicans?

    As Ryan has stated, judging a group of people by the actions of a very few, or even a single person, is down right wrong.

    No need to be wrong Steve. You should try and actually get to know those on the other side.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqUaEJLfrLo

    Small edit:

    Here is link to a link of a list of 550 times of violent or other attacks on conservatives.

    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...lent-rhetoric/

    A California resident attacked California GOP congressional candidate Rudy Peters with a switchblade. Witnesses said the assailant was spewing profanity-laced remarks about Trump and the Republican Party.

    A Republican Party office in Laramie, Wyoming caught fire * in what officials suspect was arson * just days after it opened.

    A deranged driver repeatedly rammed his truck into a local Fox News affiliate in Dallas, Texas.

    Also this week, a leftist threatened to commit mass slaughter at a "Make America Great" event at Trump's hotel in DC. "I am coming with a gun and i expect to get numerous bloodstained MAGA hats as trophies," the unnamed Twitter account holder tweeted.

    Breitbart started collecting examples of attacks on Republicans and Trump supporters in recent months. Their list is now over 550. In the past couple days, someone spat at a Hispanic immigrant woman wearing a Trump hat. A black man got kicked out of a bar for the same offense.
    Should we say those are "Yours"?

    No, because that is stupid.
    Last edited by pbjosh; 10-25-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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  8. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    Please, find where I said he was the source. Can you fucking reply with using a strawman? Reading comprehension. How many times do I need to say this? Why do you even Forum?

    HE EXPANDED IT. Dumbass. No, he didn't start it. He increased the budget 3600%. And made a lot more rules:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/th...esident-trump/





    HUGE expansion.

    As for the change:



    Previously they did separate the families, just not ALL of them. The reason was external - Trump prosecuted ALL families coming across - Obama/Bush just prosecuted MOST of the families coming across the border. This resulted in all of the kids being separated, not most.

    The reason for the separation is not about trying to separate the families, it is about trying to prosecute ALL of the border crossers.

    But no - you return to it is all racism and hating kids. It had nothing to do with it, and guess what - He reversed the law quickly so families with their kids all get to go to court together.

    And reports from these facilities show the separation is short, and people are treated humanly.

    But you act as if Trump is evil.

    What ignorance.
    this post is absurd.

    obama was detaining illegal families while they waited for deportation. this is standard police procedure. you lock up people while you process them.

    trump is building child concentration camps. stripping even newborn children from there mothers, and then forcing them to represent themselves in court. also, loosing track of who is whoes, so likly most of these children will never see there parents again. never mind the evil of separating newborns from there months, there is no hope of these children ever being re-united in most cases.

    if you cannot see a difference in these actions, our disagreement isnt political.

    your just a fucking moron.

    the TSI still has not increased, nor have you shown that racism isn't part of the motivation or justification of GOP policy.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 10-25-2018 at 01:30 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  9. #1019
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    The mechanism that leads to the detention is unchanged, however, the enforcement is what changed. There is dirt on the hands of both parties here, Gordon. Stop throwing tantrums for a little while and maybe try to understand the systemic breakdown. Tell us what you think should change and how, then maybe we can have an adult discussion.

  10. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    The mechanism that leads to the detention is unchanged, however, the enforcement is what changed. There is dirt on the hands of both parties here, Gordon. Stop throwing tantrums for a little while and maybe try to understand the systemic breakdown. Tell us what you think should change and how, then maybe we can have an adult discussion.
    you cannot have an adult conversation with someone who does not see a difference between locking families up in order to deport them, and building child concentration camps.


    you have left the rational universe, and are now in la la land.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

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