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Thread: OT: Politics

  1. #681
    I definitely agree with an improved database for mental health, but that doesn't solve the problem of people with mental health issues or people predisposed to violence getting firearms. You are taking some liberties there with how effective Grassly-Cruz would have been. The crux of that legislation was reupping the Mentally Ill Offender Treatment and Crime Reduction Act and putting $40 million dollars over 5 years for the program. The original bill passed in 2003 gave $50 million over 5 years for comparison sake. From what I can tell is the original bill had nothing to do with gun control. It may have provided greater mental health treatment, but it didn't bar those that pose a danger to society from getting guns. Further the bill dealt with gun trafficking and straw purchases, actions not at issue in the Florida shooting.

    I just don't know what they actually could have done beyond investigate the kid. I'll admit I'm going beyond my crim law experience, but the most I can see the FBI doing is referring him to state and local police. To prevent the shooting/take away his weapons they would have had to had probably cause to charge the kid with some crime. There might be a terrorism statute the kid would have fallen under, but I honestly don't know. Attempted murder is generally charged at the state level and enforcement is considered a domain of state law. Either way they would of had to build a case, which takes time. I just don't know of any federal/state statute where you can just take a person's guns away if he poses a danger to society (except in CA now). I went looking for awhile trying to find what authority/statute the FBI could act under to actually prevent this such as take away the firearms, but I couldn't find anything beyond news articles saying they messed up by not looking into the tip.

  2. #682
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbjosh View Post
    I thought it directly said when given the chance (ie, allowing them the same ability of options and price equity), only 9% of low income people took the options of a better diet, and 91% of people stayed with their habitual diets. Differences in demand being - the choice to not eat Kale. The "You can lead a horse to water" problem.
    Right, so it says there's a problem of conditioning as a result of poor access to quality food.

    So that just increases the difficulty of fixing food deserts, not that they don't exist.
    Last edited by PBSteve; 03-06-2018 at 05:32 AM.
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  3. #683
    oh wow, trump is royally fucked.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/mue...trategist/amp/

    no wonder the tariffs thing had to come out, distract distract distract!

    also remember, republicans have known the full extent to trump's crimes and links to russia since early 2016, and even before. they don't care.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 03-06-2018 at 06:07 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  4. #684
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    [Dr. Helen] Lee also notes in her study that, on closer inspection, food deserts don*t actually exist in the U.S., at least not as a national problem*on average, poor neighborhoods have more grocery stores than wealthier neighborhoods. Even before Obama*s Healthy Food Financing Initiative was announced in 2010, studies suggested that the food desert explanation for obesity wasn*t right. A report from Department of Agriculture researchers presented to Congress in 2009 also showed more grocery stores in poor neighborhoods. In 2012, USDA researchers crunched the data again and found once more that low-income neighborhoods had more*not fewer*grocery stores.
    I can go on. For pages.

    http://dcentric.wamu.org/2011/11/sev...ths/index.html

    Obesity levels don*t drop when low-income city neighborhoods have or get grocery stores. A 2011 study published in the Archives of Internal Medicine showed no connection between access to grocery stores and more healthful diets using 15 years* worth of data from more than 5,000 people in five cities. One 2012 study showed that the local food environment did not influence the diet of middle-school children in California. Another 2012 study, published in Social Science and Medicine, used national data on store availability and a multiyear study of grade-schoolers to show no connection between food environment and diet. And this month, a study in Health Affairs examined one of the Philadelphia grocery stores that opened with help from the Fresh Food Financing Initiative. The authors found that the store had no significant impact on reducing obesity or increasing daily fruit and vegetable consumption in the four years since it opened.
    Nor would the solutions to a problem that does exist help it.

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...t-be-deserted/

    Originally introduced by British politicians in the 1990s, the concept of a food desert has been a popular way to approach food insecure regions in the United States for over a decade. It has been embraced by politicians, celebrities, chefs, and other influential leaders. Despite this trend, the term *food desert* and efficacy of the interventions to combat them have been questioned in recent years.

    Highlighting how malnutrition and food insecurity results from more than geographical access, their research found the introduction of a grocery store in the area did not have a significant impact on fruit and vegetable consumption. Further, there was an increase in the amount of prepared and fast foods consumed during the 17 months the grocery store was open.
    Do you want a wall of text? I can do that, because there is a lot of data that shows this theory from the UK in the 1990s is busted.

    _____________________________

    also remember, republicans have known the full extent to trump's crimes and links to russia since early 2016, and even before. they don't care.
    They don't care about the things you guys sure think they care about. And truth be told, I suspect this will be bunk like most of the other stuff. Rumors and hints yet after a year nothing much really. There should have been something more by now. Maybe. We will see.
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  5. #685
    actually, they have known since late 2015 and 2016, they were the ones who contracted with fusion GPS in early 2015 to write the steele dossier. a full year before a single democrat even knew it existed. steele and fusion GPS wrote the dossier as research for the GOP. they have known. they did/have done nothing.
    Last edited by cockerpunk; 03-06-2018 at 07:38 PM.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    actually, they have known since late 2015 and 2016, they were the ones who contracted with fusion GPS in early 2015 to write the steele dossier. a full year before a single democrat even knew it existed. steele and fusion GPS wrote the dossier as research for the GOP. they have known. they did/have done nothing.
    Steele wasn't brought on till the DNC's law firm started paying in 2016. I'll be interested to see what comes out from the Mueller probe. Many aspects of the Steele dossier have been proven true (I don't think it's all true, maybe Russian misdirection) so we shall see what happens.

    How about that Stormy Daniels lawsuit now hahahahahahahahahaha

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by d0cwho View Post
    Steele wasn't brought on till the DNC's law firm started paying in 2016. I'll be interested to see what comes out from the Mueller probe. Many aspects of the Steele dossier have been proven true (I don't think it's all true, maybe Russian misdirection) so we shall see what happens.

    How about that Stormy Daniels lawsuit now hahahahahahahahahaha
    thats not true actually. it only became known as the "steele dossier" after the DNC started paying fusion GPS, but steele was contracted by fusion GPS when the GOP approached them about doing research. he was by far the most connected guy they could find on the topic.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  8. #688
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    thats not true actually. it only became known as the "steele dossier" after the DNC started paying fusion GPS, but steele was contracted by fusion GPS when the GOP approached them about doing research. he was by far the most connected guy they could find on the topic
    (facepalm gif)

    No.

    How about that Stormy Daniels lawsuit now hahahahahahahahahaha
    Ben Shapiro was talking about Trump vs Oprah, and he made the point that Trump was a Mud Monster. When this all gets thrown around, mud on Trump doesn't matter. He is made of it. But Oprah, she is clean, pristine. It will show up on her far more, because she is viewed in a far better light. Trump sleeping with porn stars, dating models.... of course. He is Trump. That is what he does. Afterwards, a nice letter with a lawyer. His base doesn't care. They didn't elect him for his fidelity to his wife. We will see, but I expect the media to care far more than anybody else. My surprise level is not, and my care level is low.
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  9. #689
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    Man. We all knew the bubbles would burst one day, I just didn't expect to see Trump take a knife to them by starting a trade war with a tariff.

    GoP will do everything they can to stop him, which should be interesting to watch.
    Ever so many citizens of this republic think they ought to believe that the Universe is a monarchy, and therefore they are always at odds with the republic. -Alan Watts

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  10. #690
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    I definitely agree with an improved database for mental health, but that doesn't solve the problem of people with mental health issues or people predisposed to violence getting firearms. You are taking some liberties there with how effective Grassly-Cruz would have been.
    There is no perfect fix. This is a grey area, and there is no perfect solution. Even throwing all the guns into the ocean, the problem is still Evil, and mass killing will still happen. As I showed before, the US Mass Killing incidents ratio is average to Europe. I do think we have hazarded to far into the "Not doing anything" area, even for my libertarian bones, but the problem with mass killing incidents is not exacerbated or cured by having gun control or not. Or a different healthcare program. It seems to exist in developed nations at this same ratio.

    The FBI do have the right to arrest somebody they suspect is going to go do a school shooting, and they also have the right to take away their firearms after a process. And jailing them. And sending them for a mental evaluation. I talked to a buddy at the UT Forensics department. In the case of mental health, there are some solid limits on what the police can do, and one of them is they can not send somebody for a mental evaluation. In the real life, we had to deal with the 'Other Dad' who is not very mentally stable at times. During a period of time a couple years ago he went pretty dark. He accused his neighbors of being my family members, sent there to spy on him. He thought my father in law was breaking into his house, and writing website addresses where we were putting up videos of his daughter on porn sites. Spots on the walls in the house had been sanded through, past the drywall, past the wood, down to the brick, where he tried to sand it off. The police had been called to the house so many times because of his fights with his mother that they know him by name. He has a long standing record with addiction and violence. And yet we still had to allow visitation and access. And to purchase firearms. My ex-wife is 1200mg of lithium a day Bi-polar. Violent, abusive, a complete train wreck. She abducted our 2 daughters and disappeared for 5 years. We fought for years in custody battles, private investigators and related to get our kids protected from them. And often we couldn't.

    I am very familiar with what the cops can do. It is fairly limited, until a case is presented. Some of that would change with grassley-cruz. A big one being the database that wouldn't allow them to legally purchase firearms, and would put them on a watch list. It would allow the cops to deal with mental health. Finally. That is HUGE.

    In the case of a solid threat with a mass shooter, the FBI can do A LOT. Right now. Thanks in part to the bill that Obama brought forward.

    With Grassley-Cruz, they can do even more. And doing more is not a bad thing here. It might be able to be abused. That would have to be addressed.
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