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Thread: History and back-end information of the "little guys"

  1. #21
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    May 2012
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I do believe that between SP & PVI, that they(SP) had put an order in to PVI for a stupid level of guns with a quick turnaround, like 10k guns in 3 months. Which PVI could not fill. Which SP knew would break their contract. Because PVI filed bankruptcy or became insolvent, SP bought them out of all the rights, parts or something to that effect, thus starting the SP shocker. Then PVI sought to fight back with the Cyber9000 with enough changes to try and be better but then closed up.
    I would love to read that contract, seems friggin weird to me.
    Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer!

    I work for the company building the Paragon

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
    Learn information. Share information. Not a debate page
    gonna be hard with nobody if you say word one bad about an ICD gun or AGD gun. or even compare another gun to them in any way
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    gonna be hard with nobody if you say word one bad about an ICD gun or AGD gun. or even compare another gun to them in any way
    Really? Can you leave your ego out of anything?

    edit do you want me to say that mags are heavy, out dated in design, and though the performance keeps it very competitive, that the overall design needs a 30 year overhual? How about ICD, really lost more people with the PRP release and not following it up, than they had before? Or how in t years, no real effort was done to the overall design of the B2K through to the B2K4 (5 years and only cosmetic changes), nor addressing the chief complaints of shitty regs, horrid harness design and ergonomics, till the PM? Or i know, how the FS was a great design, yet they nearly changed it every year, with no parts interchanging and some guns, namely the FSP, being a bastard child design that was dropped as soon as it was introduced?

    Unlike you, as much as i love some guns, i am not blind to their faults. I do not drink the koolaid. So go fish...
    Last edited by Nobody; 10-28-2017 at 10:57 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSteve View Post
    I would love to read that contract, seems friggin weird to me.
    Like i said. I heard that. Whether it is true, whether i am even getting the fact vs rumor straight, i do not know. But IMO, that is something that SP could have done and because the internet was only nascent back then, that kind of information of how or why PVI ceased so shortly after the Cyber9000 release is speculation. I do know people have tried to contact PVI and failed and SP presumably has those kinds of skeletons buried deep.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Josh, when you say Andy, Eric and Chris with zodiac... I didn't realize Andy or Eric we're part of zodiac. Maybe I read that wrong.

    Maybe 2 years ago I heard that Glen from infinity and some other guys (from hybrid?) had some rights or something for a Chris Cole design. No clue if any of that's true, but any clue how hybrid, Chris and Glen would possibly be tied in? I seem to recall it also being associated with Trauma or a guy named Corey who may have been with FEP.

    Also, don't you know the guys that were Vanguard in the UK? They're the remnants of lucky UK, right?

    On tribal, I got this from someone on MCB:
    When francis left it went under , Macdev was getting into parts and made stuff for tribal like regulators.
    So they went ahead and took the designs and tweaked them then the cyborg came out.
    There were no patents so it was legit
    -Doesn't make it true, but it's not my word.
    Last edited by ironyusa; 10-29-2017 at 09:28 AM.

  6. #26
    Insider Ydna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Adrian MI
    Erik and I weren't involved with Chris, it's just the similarities of the markers that keeps bringing that point back. Every time we'd release info on the then-FEP "Q8" marker (later Zealot) he would release similar design info on the ZR1. Not saying it was taken from us, but it sure was odd about the 3rd time that it happened.

    Dave was involved with the reincarnated "FEP Sports" at this time (like 2007) along with another investor. They dropped off in 2009 and we created the TAS label and changed the marker name to differentiate it from the Quest line.

    We originally intended to use several parts from the Machine Vapor in the Zealot, but getting Spurlock to supply anything was like pulling teeth, even just for prototypes. In the end I made all those parts, even the stupid little injection mold detents. So that fizzled out all on its own and we intended to just make the parts ourselves even if they were physically identical to chinese ones floating around.

    FWIW i agree about the single trigger frames...I'd love to make more complete single trigger/frame packages for people if the cost of a whole frame wasn't so prohibitory. The AxePro's separate trigger guard is a godsend for customizing in that regard, I wish every marker made it that easy lol

  7. #27
    Insider Unfated33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Charlotte, NC
    It hasn't been brought up yet, but I know there have been two split off groups from Azodin. The first was Eric Wang that created the Unity Prime, which was intended to be a better, upgradeable version of the Kaos. The marker seemed to perform poorly and the upgrade kit never came out. The second was when the Azodin USA guys - Sergio Aguilar and Paul (?) - got laid off and went to form D3FY with the rebranded Rogue. I'm pretty sure they created an airsoft company at the same time and also have branched out into paint supply.

    EDIT: Sergio now lists his time at D3FY ending in 2014.
    Last edited by Unfated33; 10-30-2017 at 09:35 AM.

  8. #28
    Insider imped4now's Avatar
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    Feb 2015
    Very informative so far. Keep it up.

    What exactly happened to WDP/APS, and who owns the IP now?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Knoxville, TN
    WDP. From the UK guys when I was over last, their accountant kept on playing with money and they didn't want to go away from the 3 tube body. According to the rumors the accountant would send $1m from the bank at location A to location B, to show there was $1M there also, but had done something else with it? I guess the fees ate of a good chunk of that. If something else had happened, it might be closer to truth than some guys BS'ing. When I was doing something with J&M they got a call from the WDP guy and they were talking about starting it up again with them. I made some proposals on what we could do, but J&M fell apart about then also. They still wanted to stick to a 3 tube body IIRC. No clue on the IP.

    Just for clarity Andy, didn't Chris work with you guys on the original FEQ Quest project? And then you did improvements, and Chris took the CAD and IP and ran? Or is my memory worse than I remember? And then you had to do the other bits on the Zealot to work around it? Which actually is a clever setup, having seen that CAD.

    On that note - Spurlock did help out Chris on the Zodiac. I think PeeGee said that they just used a GI Nano Body scaled up 120% as the start to it. Chris had a hard time getting Spurlock to get part made right each time - I saw the pics and the CAD. QC was not decent on the prototypes and on the bolt tip. I helped him try and fix the ASA reg, and it was a bit too crazy tight. Designed a couple regs I would like to reproduce later. Balanced reverse moving base design in one. Would make a great LPR. I ended up redesigning his bolt tip. He wanted venturies. He took a gun shooting 295 and put his bolt in, and it shot 265. Put mine in, 335. I got a zodiac out of the deal. Decent gun.

    Spurlock had been sent a bunch of solenoids and boards from Cole. Then he tried to sell the Zodiac over here without Cole's permission. Then he used the noids in the Vapor. Not sure if he used the boards also, I think not. There is Quest/Zodiac DNA in the vapor though.
    Josh Coray
    J4 Paintball
    Lead Design

  10. #30
    Insider imped4now's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    WDP is a company I'd like to see make a return and I'd be fine with them sticking with the 3 tube layout....I'd like to think that extra real estate would make going hoseless a little easier. A modern (evolved) SB has been making me salivate recently.

    Awesome stuff about the the Quest, Zodiac, Vapor, etc. Coming from an old school Quest lover (still have my 4B'd Quest) and a Vapor owner, it's all quite interesting. I kind of figured there was some sort of relationship there, especially with Chris and Spurlock in the picture.

    The 4B'd Quest is still one of the nicest shooting spools around, IMO.

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