The Industry is going magfed crazy...

[russc]

A bunch of new mag-fed markers were announced today, that brings the total in the last few months up to...a whole lot!

Spyder's got two new ones, a pump and semi. One is a mag-fed Hammer Pump, the other looks like a replacement for the MRX.

Dye's on board with a high end electronic Mag-fed Matrix, the DAM. "Dye Assault Matrix."

Milsig's got their new spool valved series, the low end CQB is coming in under $300 MSRP.

The Sar-12 is still in the works...

The CCM SR-1 is out there now

RAP4 is coming out with a new 468 quick-strip mag fed blowback

Scarab Arms has the TGR-1 blowback.



All in all, this is a very very interesting time to be watching the PB industry. I'm really hoping to see more mag-fed out of Tippmann, and of course KEE.

[Pump Scout]

Seems like it'd be a good time for a First Strike magazine for the Trracer, doesn't it?

[neftaly]

Still waiting for someone to produce with a better magazine design e.g. double-stack auger based. Pref. before every manufacture makes their own proprietary (non standardized) magazine receiver, though I guess there's always hope for adaptors

[russc]

Double stacked auger? Like...a qloader?

[neftaly]

My crappy prototype is basically a 20x40mm (2 paintballs wide) rectangular box extrusion with a spring at the bottom and a gate at the top. Goes into receiver with a worm gear (the auger) mounted axially above the mag. Havn't been able to 3D print that yet because I'm having trouble with the support structures on blades large enough to hold paintballs. Can also be done with a gear with large teeth though it's a little more complicated.

[desertT1]

KEE was ahead of the curve with the release of the Trracer and SA-17 (thanks to Simon adding the D-hole), but the decision makers failed miserably at finishing the task. A mag fed Trracer/SA-17, whether from the side, top, bottom, or the moon would have taken the hold that all of these offerings are going to work themselves into. I had a Trracer and bugged KEE to get a magazine out there, but when they failed to deliver, I sold it. I don't know when, but I will have a Hammer7 as soon as it's convenient.

[vijil]

^ this.

Hate to say it but I'll be selling the trracer and picking up a hammer if I can figure out a way to mount a foregrip on it. Having the rails on the trracer pump handle was a genius idea I'm surprised kingman didn't emulate.

neftaly you're not the only one with ideas for making *proper* magazines for magfed markers - dmag styles don't count, especially on a $1300 marker...

[L x]

I reeeeeally want to get a hammer7 and make a wooden stock and foregrip for it, turn it into a thompson/tommy gun.

[vijil]

cool idea

So I've been thinking lots about the DAM, and there's a fair bit can be said. Some of their design decisions are a little perplexing.

I was talking to L x about this before that it seems like they've painted themselves into a bit too small of a niche. Not only is the marker $1300, but it doesn't quite seem to hit many markets. Example: in current form it wont be widely adopted by magfed/milsim players because of A: the 10+10 mags which are a disadvantage with regular paint compared to a milsig or whatever and B: no stock tank option. They may fix the stock tank thing soon (or so go the rumours I've heard) but the mags seem to be set.

Most woodsball players won't be all that willing to shell out for it unless they specifically want the FS switching ability, given that most just shoot speedball markers anyway.

So... I dunno. Maybe it'll do an Apple - ie. become such an object of desire that people buy it anyway. But the market just seems too niche for them to actually make money on it. What I would have done would be to A: have an air thru and stock tank off the bat, B: use proto rail internals to keep the price down well below 1k and C: provide actual 20 round mags (even if these ones are only for round paint) or compatibility with existing systems. With all that you could maintain some chance of penetrating and growing the magfed/milsim enthusiast market while competing on price with something like the milsig paradigm pro. In the milsim market you end up with three key advantages - eyes = more reliable, doesn't shoot without paint in breech = more realistic, and a working fire mode selector for 3shot and auto. The DAM has all that but misses out on the market for the other reasons above. If not for that it would have a good chance of convincing milsim ballers that batteries aren't so bad.

Milsim players also are hung up on durability and loudness/kick (more = better), something that's been hammered into them by milsig and rap4 marketing. So imo PE could actually do this whole thing better using an etek or etha based system. Lower maintenance, noisier, take more abuse or at least have that reputation. A magfed Etha or Etek based marker with 20 round mags for round paint or something else for FS, air thru stock as well as grip asa option, stock tank available. Do it all for around the $800 mark and it could be a winner.

sorry guys I'll be spamming for a while, I go a little post crazy on new forums sometimes

[Simon]

It's not spam if it contributes to the discussion at hand. Feel free to make as many posts like that as you can.

A lot of us have been discussing the DAM and it seems like no-one is sure if it's a stroke of genius, or if it will fall on it's face.

In the past I have been stopped from doing higher priced mil sim or recreational intent markers under the statement that they won't sell at the higher price point. It does seem to be a harder sell in such a market, but I am not sure that the market is non existent as many often thought.

The mag system looks to work very well, and although the capacity is lower for a single burst it looks to reload way better than many of the other mag systems which are very finicky. I am not certain that it will be that much of a hold back when compared to the 20 round mags of the competition especially when you start tying the mags together so a reload takes seconds. If they reload easily without some of the jamming and annoying mag location issues associated with other mags then it may become a mute point.

I am also not sure I see a tank in the stock as a necessity. I do feel that poor efficiency will make it less of an appealing gun to the big game/scenario crowd where efficiency can be very valuable.

I can see for the way I play big games and scenario's that this could be a very cool gun to be using. I like the idea of occasional first strike shots, but backing it up with bulk paint capability. The low shot count would be the issue for me though. I often only leave the field at a big game or scenario event because I have run out of air. I already run with an 88ci tank too...

I am concerned with the geared eye pipe in polycarbonate and reports of breaking the last ball out of the magazine. If they don't clean the eye pipe gear locations well then I can see breakage issues under the stress of the gear system.

I also feel that for that kind of money I would have wanted the Matrix internals with an LPR. It's harder to justify the gun cost when it's based off a $500 reflex internally.

I think they missed the ball with the push button selector though, should have done a positional switch.

Some Milsim guys want more kick and loudness, but not all. I do agree that a Ego style gun with some "action" to it and the efficiency as well would be a better platform for many.

I do like the low cost of their magazines, that actually surprised me quite a bit.

If they turn out to be good, it may be an option for standardizing a magazine system, but again time will tell on that.

I would personally never pay that money for one, although I am fascinated by some of the opportunities and design points. Fortunately I won one playing the UWL at World Cup and I should get it in a few weeks. I'll give more detailed thoughts then.