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Thread: Making paintball more fun for veterans and newbies alike

  1. #11
    mixed tech teams

    5 man - 1 pump, 2 mechs, 2 electros
    7 man - 1 pump, 3 mechs, 2 electros, or 2 pumps, 2 mechs, 3 electros

    etc

    bring back multi-field tournaments. you know, where you play speedball, mounds, junkyard, pure woods etc in the same event.

  2. #12
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    You're almost describing the UWL

    Many of the UWL rules are incomprehensible to me* but it has some great ideas. Here in NZ woodsball some clubs play something similar to the UWL scoring format only everything is electronic - a bunch of scattered flag stations are wirelessly linked and a central computer counts down the points from each team according to how many bases they hold or don't just like Battlefield1942, and then declares the winner and sounds an alarm when it's over. Among other things.

    *the 11th player thing seems entirely pointless - why is he optional and other players aren't? It's just 11 man paintball with weird pointless rules for when you show up with 10, but still calls itself 10 man for no reason. There are a few of these arbitrary rules in the UWL that just don't seem well thought out.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
    mixed tech teams

    5 man - 1 pump, 2 mechs, 2 electros
    7 man - 1 pump, 3 mechs, 2 electros, or 2 pumps, 2 mechs, 3 electros

    etc

    bring back multi-field tournaments. you know, where you play speedball, mounds, junkyard, pure woods etc in the same event.
    to be honest, who would want to do that? there has to be incentive to shoot a pump or a mech. if the rules of the tourney state that, its one thing, but i doubt many people will want to do it of their own free will. other than limiting the amount of paint, you could not do this in any way more than a little event. hell, if you are looking at the Pro level; Dye, Planet Eclipse, DLX, Empire or any of the major sponsors don't even make mechs, with just a Empire offering a pump option that wouldn't interfere with sponsorships.

    as for the different types of fields, that will never happen, unless you play Greg Hastings' video games. there is no control over it. with woods or even mounds, you loose sight of players, almost guaranteeing that those players would cheat. not to mention the logistics of trying to get a junkyard into Huntington Beach, or the cost to try to build a dirt mound field at the World Cup. its one thing to play in a swamp/monsoon as some events were held and the fields were underwater, but you can not ask the fields to try and do that.

  4. #14
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    Mixed tech makes sense if it entails mixed roles since when it comes down to it mixing tech is really just about mixing capability - a mech is different to an electro because it typically has a lower rof max, likewise with a pump. Magfed markers and such limit reloading ability while FS rounds improve first shot hitrate and range. Stock class adds extra performance and convenience penalties by forcing players to deal with cartridges and ten round tubes. Airowguns are an even bigger penalty if you want to go that far.

    In a gameplay sense it does add some tactical interest - suddenly electro players are the most valuable guys on the field, and so on.

    The problem it creates is that suddenly there are more and less valuable players. Instead why not give each role both advantages and disadvantages which will suit different playstyles? So a heavy gunner is allowed an electro with as much paint as they can carry, while a pump player is an "engineer" and the only class that can capture flag stations. A DM is the only one allowed to use FS rounds (and has a carry limit), etc. etc.. That said I don't personally see the point of mechs as a role - roles should be based on ROF, carry limits, paint types and per-reload limits, not technical details for the sake of it. This is especially true given how hard it can be to find mechs, and that an electro with a rof or hopper limit can be effectively the same for gameplay.

    The issues are really around administration - players all having the same rules is much easier to manage and ref at a tournament level even if it works well for scenario and milsim games. Likewise different types of fields can work for UWL style tournaments, but as Nobody says it limits the more official sporting side of the game. Ref and admin workload is a major issue I was trying to avoid with vball that most alternative formats seem to forget.
    Last edited by vijil; 01-20-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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  5. #15
    Insider Pump Scout's Avatar
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    I'd be very interested to see what would happen in an environment of 5-v-5, any markers and firing modes you want, but each team gets 1000 rounds total for each point. Not per player, per team. You can split that up as 200 per player, or 400 for a back guy and two fronts get only 100 each, or whatever. After each point, players would have to empty their hoppers, and be issued paint for the next point by event staff.

  6. #16
    Insider
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    As long as you get good paint like evil or Marballizer it's not hard to get kills. Valken on the other hand I've found it's top tier still shot terrible. Manufacturers should make nothing but tournament paint (which many people shoot in rec around here if they aren't rentals) and a high grade ball that they make shit loads of and they can lower cost on that ball. IT could be made in consistently in batches made for hot environments, warm, cool, etc and they'd have a stock of paint ready to be shipped to fit a fields climate that is high quality and always accurate and usable and for such a ball I don't see why they couldn't sell it to fields at $30 a case or less considering they'd have a huge supply and it would actually shoot good. I've noticed since our field switched to all Marballizer rentals can actually hit people. They aren't simply shooting at nothing all day and they are ENJOYING playing not getting frustrated they aren't hitting anything.

  7. #17
    Insider
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    98Pro, manufacturing high grade paint takes more time than making field grade paint, beginning with running the encapsulating machine slower, paint doing longer cycles in the spin driers to get rid of oil residue, and spending more time in the drying tunnel. Add to that higher cost of ingredients like using only virgin gelatine of proper quality, more colorants, costlier thickeners and so on. And because the shell is made thinner, it's more susceptible to damage in transport and storage, so it's hard to make loads of it and just keep on hand for each type of customer to come along.

    In simple words, what you're talking about is very hard and costly to do and there is not many ways to further drive the cost of manufacturing down without sacrificing quality or without new and brake-through technology (Hydrotec promised it but never delivered).

    Here's a good movie from my old job showing the process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAmy2W1eaaw . If you can't understand Rick, turn english captions on (or Dutch, German or Polish)

  8. #18
    Insider PBSteve's Avatar
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    It would appear that tournament paintball probably does not want bigger fields and more long-range, high accuracy shots.

    http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3918938

  9. #19
    Insider Unfated33's Avatar
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    I think trying to make the day more fun is the first thing on my mind every time I go out to a paintball field. For me, high rate of fire just isn't fun. This is true whether it's semi or ramping. In some ways, ramping is better on occasions because at least it's capped at 12.5 bps. On the flipside, while heading out to a field with all BT-4s is more enjoyable, it also feels like things could be just a bit better. A group of people using basic mechs do not have the advantage of the technology, and so having eyes on the breech, loaders that keep the marker fed continuously, anti-chop or soft bolts, lighter weight, more efficiency, etc., are missed out on.

    I'm personally not a fan of pump markers, but I think players that have turned this direction have done so for something closer to the right reason. This is probably also true for magfed players and FSR players as well. I don't have anything really against high volume/high ROF players, but I do think that players that style winning the game based on their ability to shoot lots of paint in mass quantities are a deterrent for the types of players that want a more recreational game. This includes most all new players. And because rate of fire is so easy to achieve in modern equipment (better triggers, ramping or auto, power loaders), there's not a direct correlation between firing speed and overall ability. I guess that presumes that stealth, movement, accuracy, reaction time, and other physical factors should be more highly valued in the game experience.

    The thing is, I'm not sure I see the big downside to further cutting the rate of fire rate down (from 12.5 to maybe 6? 8?). People have made reasonable arguments for why we might still keep top loaders or might still keep a round projectile. Other than not functioning to the ROF that we've designed into the equipment, what's a good argument for keeping the rate up at such speeds?

  10. #20
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    In speedball it's part of the appeal in the sense of things being fast and crazy. That and paint manufacturers like it. In scenario it's about being more effective on field which as you say isn't that much fun for others. That said I've never had an issue with a few players having high rof - it adds to the tactical depth a bit.
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