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Thread: Making paintball more fun for veterans and newbies alike

  1. #31
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    I think "low impact paintball" may actually be a big ticket where I previously didn't agree. Maybe that's not THE solution, but it could be a part. Low impact, heavy ROF caps and fields that actively dissuade douchebaggery would be steps in a more welcoming presentation.

  2. #32
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    I agree, and think that simply selling better paint intended for lower ROF would do a better job than forcing 50 cal on the market.

    "Low Impact" could refer to break force or pressure, rather than muzzle energy. There's a marked difference between being shot with really awesome tournament grade paint and field paint. The fact that it flies better is an added bonus. Granted I'm living in a dream world where field rentals are reasonable guns, but that doesn't feel like so much to ask.

    I think there's a big gap between "dissuade douchbaggery" and "foster comaraderie", though. The previous post was to convey my disgust about the lack of obviously needed systematization in the paintball process for recreational players.
    "So you've done this before?"
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  3. #33
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    Oh yeah. Dead on with the frangibility bits as well. I feel like that cheap rental crap created a lot of the mess... It shoots horrible (inaccurate), seldom breaks on the target consistently (hurts) and since the guns that fire it usually suck, it blends in the gun commonly as well. If that had been my experience, I'd move on to a different hobby as well especially given the price.

    I also understand what you're saying on the behavioral side, but IMO we have a tremendous gap here as well. I mean, when rental players go to the field, they'll watch the more experienced players (preferably in different games). When they see overshooting, the general way speedballers conduct themselves, etc. I just think it paints a perception of the progression. Framing the way tournament ball is perceived from an observer/ non-participant is important IMO.

  4. #34
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    Interesting points.

    I had the same experience with unicycling, lurker. Such a tiny sport, yet somehow manages to organise a genuine world cup in a different country every two years.

    vBall needs lots of work, but I think that's kind of the point. Iterating rules and ideas is important.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of splitting divisions by rof and paint though. There's no real reason for it if the basic format works. I'd have (small) match level paint limits and leave it at that. Maybe have a magfed division as well, and/or a single trigger mech (ie rental) newbie division.

    vBall for those wondering is basically centre flag race with a point for the first pull and endzones to take the flag into for the conversion point. It's been through so many versions it's ridiculous, but in the end I've decided simpler is better, coupled with some tuning mechanisms based on how fast/slow it actually ends up playing. Said mechanisms being endzone positioning and shape, bunker density, so on. Yes you can pass or throw the flag. Yes you can ignore it, but the game design creates incentive to play the objective. Yes there's more to it but that's the basics. It's football paintball.

    Why? Because a better focal point means a better game for both playing and watching and filming. Because keeping the rules simple (not like NSL) makes it easy to learn and better for people to watch. Because using incentive rather than brute force rules keeps it simple but also adds tactical depth, like any good game.

    That's my reasoning.

    An advanced option would be to allow only the flag carrier to respawn or sub if shot, which would lead to some *really* interesting tactical games and 1v1 scenarios (and paint cleaning/overshooting issues), but I'd like to see how the simple version goes. If the flag gets ignored and it returns to good old elimination, add this rule.
    Last edited by vijil; 01-08-2018 at 09:52 PM.

  5. #35
    This is just my opinion from my experience trying to get out and play. If paintball is going to grow, or at least maintain it's player base someone needs to figure out a way to develop better local leagues that don't rely on a tournament format. I think tournament paintball is the biggest impediment to keeping players right now. It creates the perverse incentive to continually practice with a dedicated group of guys every weekend to then spend even more money playing in the national or local tournament. Most adults I know can't make that commitment because of other obligations in life such as work or family. With the exception of a few fields, to play at speedball (at least in the Mid-Atlantic region) you need to play on a team that plays tournaments and "practices." Not being able to make that commitment a lot of good players drop out as they take on more responsibilities in other parts of their life. It's just not a sustainable business model when you have to rely on 16-30 year olds to finance your business. I know so many guys who dropped out of the sport and stopped playing regularly simply because they couldn't commit to a team and didn't have anyone to play with when they got to the field.

    I think a better model is the adult social leagues (such as softball) that they have for other sports. Each week (or every two weeks) you play a match (true xball with split deck would be perfect) for 50-60 minutes. You keep the costs low by limiting paint per a point and not having prizes. You could even randomize teams at the beginning of each week and give the people a time slot to show up and play.

  6. #36
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    I agree, but the majority of field revenue seems to come from treating paintball as a novelty. I'd argue that's largely because they are so terrible at organizing a recurring and stable revenue stream, as suggested in most of my posts in this thread, but chicken/egg problem. No real incentive to set up a league catering to a playerbase you don't really have now, and without a league you'll never get that playerbase.

    Really, the only way this would work is to link easily into existing databases such as APPA, make signup incredibly easy (Use facebook credentialing) and use a matchmaking algorithm to bootstrap the whole thing at existing local fields. I'm fairly convinced that you'd have to make the infrastructure free to any field that wants to use it, and I don't see anyone in paintball doing that, really.
    Last edited by Lurker27; 01-08-2018 at 10:57 PM. Reason: a little morose
    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  7. #37
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    I'd fucking love that. Doubly so if I could just leave my shit at the field unless I had a tech issue (this is how super strict places like NYC work, and most fields have nothing but space).
    "So you've done this before?"
    "Oh, hell no. But I think it's gonna work."

  8. #38
    pewpewpew vijil's Avatar
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    Weeknight social league is what's up.
    I've tried to organise it here but the field shut down.

    Picture this:

    3 or 4man, keeps it easy to find a team and reduces the ref numbers and load. 3 refs might do it, a couple hours work each.
    vBall (or race or just whatever, but obviously I'm biased)
    Magfed adapters or hopperball grav feed. Something to limit paint and encourage movement.
    50 cal keeps the pain low.

    Play one other team per week on your night in about a 30-45 minute game. No prizes, just advancement to the next div if you win a season and some medals.

    Play in evenings after work. Outdoors in summer, under lights if in winter.

    Pay $25 or less per week per person, all inclusive. Or a reduced one off season fee including paint.

    - Doing the math, a team is paying $100 per night, with a case to shoot between them. Three refs cost say $30 for the time. What does paint cost you? So it's not a huge money spinner, but it's a start. It gives players an excuse to practice, buy your merch, bring their friends...

    For season finals, webcast them. Doesn't have to be produced, even just an instagram or FB phone stream will do. Make sure all players know about it, but ideally have netting and a way to watch in person. Push the marketing side in general via social media and lots of footage and content. Push SM engagement from your players. Cheaply. These days I think most fields should have at least a part time marketing person.

    Sell related merch with good margins. League logo tees and drifits, team jerseys, gear, have a pro shop. Get Dye or HK or PE or someone to help promote and sponsor as its in their interest.

    Get fields in other areas to do their own version

    Have regional finals

    ...

    Grow.

    Future of PB?
    Last edited by vijil; 01-09-2018 at 03:23 AM.

  9. #39
    pick up and random draw leagues have been tried around here. one was called "streetball" even. it seemed fun.

    a better method that i've seen here is not running rental groups and "open play" but instead they have rental groups, open play, and then one dedicated day per week called advanced open play. having just one day means you actually reach critical mass to have a real open/experienced player open play, and allows everyone to show up on the same day, and thus not dilute the player pool. then that critical mass grows on itself.
    social conservatism: the mortal fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.

  10. #40
    Yeah. Pick-up days use to be a lot more popular, but they died out it seems. I think a lack of organization and fields that can handle night time games in all weather (indoor) are really the limiting factors.

    I like the day of "open play" but you need some way of sorting the players a bit. When I get the chance I play open play at PEVs and sometimes it can be a pretty rough experience depending on who I play with because the gulf in class can be pretty wide at times.

    If I ran a field with the goal of growing my consumer base I'd probably do the following.

    - Make it indoor
    - Have 1-2days set aside for teams to rent the facility (normal cost of entry) to train - teams must prepay for paint and entry with no refunds if they don't show up (how exercise classes work)
    - 1 day set aside for cleaning the turf (place needs to have drainage installed
    - Have a workout room for teams to train in after they play or before
    - 1-2 days for a beginner league - 50 cal, limited paint, xball, equipment provided (prepay the week before)
    - 1-2 days for an open league - 68 cal, limited paint, xball, provide your own equipment (prepay the week before)
    - 1 day of general open play depending on how successful leagues are

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