Titanium UL frame?

[fullofpaint]

So someone on CustomCockers posted a link to Dye's manufacturing site, and browsing thorough stumbled on this: http://www.dyeprecisioncnc.com/samples-titanium.php

Curious if that was a prototype they made that was never used or just a part mis-listed, I can't recall every seeing or hearing about a titanium UL frame. Just thought it was kind of interesting.

[98Pro]

I've seen that before. Would make their guns lighter and stronger however it would cut down their bottom end so they won't do it.

[Lurker27]

stronger, not lighter (unless it was designed to be such)

[98Pro]

Titanium isn't lighter than Aluminum? Or is it lighter if you used enough Titanium to just meet the strength of the Aluminum as in make it thinner in structural areas.

[PBSteve]

That is correct. Titanium alloys are actually more dense than Al alloys, so yes, if you used the same volume of Ti to make an Ultralite frame you'd end up with a frame that's actually heavier. The weight savings comes from requiring less material to achieve similar strength properties, so you'd have to re-design the frame to take advantage of Ti construction.

"Generally, Ti-6Al-4V is used in applications up to 400 degrees Celsius. It has a density of roughly 4420 kg/m3, Young's modulus of 110 GPa, and tensile strength of 1000 MPa.[8] By comparison, annealed type 316 stainless steel has a density of 8000 kg/m3, modulus of 193 GPa, and tensile strength of only 570 MPa.[9] And tempered 6061 aluminium alloy has 2700 kg/m3, 69 GPa, and 310 MPa, respectively.[10]"

The impressive thing here is that Dye is capable of machining Titanium.

[desertT1]

Dye isn't a mom and pop place, it's a big boy place. If they are touting ITAR compliance, they are bidding for defense contracts.

[98Pro]

So 3.22x the strength but only 1.64x the mass. So you should be able to remove about half the weight if you remove enough material to get to an equivalent strength overall if I'm doing my math right.

[Lurker27]

Not exactly. Generally stiffness in a beam assorts with the square of thickness, whereas the weight is linear. Titanium also is remarkably elastic for a metal, which you have to account for in design. I very much doubt any intelligent paintball company will use titanium prominently in a design in the near future.

[98Pro]

Interesting. I wasn't sure if everything accross the board was linear as in 1/8" of X material had 5000 psi of shear strength and 1/4" of X material had 10000 psi of shear strength. Good to know.

[Janek]

That is correct. Titanium alloys are actually more dense than Al alloys, so yes, if you used the same volume of Ti to make an Ultralite frame you'd end up with a frame that's actually heavier. The weight savings comes from requiring less material to achieve similar strength properties, so you'd have to re-design the frame to take advantage of Ti construction.

"Generally, Ti-6Al-4V is used in applications up to 400 degrees Celsius. It has a density of roughly 4420 kg/m3, Young's modulus of 110 GPa, and tensile strength of 1000 MPa.[8] By comparison, annealed type 316 stainless steel has a density of 8000 kg/m3, modulus of 193 GPa, and tensile strength of only 570 MPa.[9] And tempered 6061 aluminium alloy has 2700 kg/m3, 69 GPa, and 310 MPa, respectively.[10]"

The impressive thing here is that Dye is capable of machining Titanium.

This reminds me of the story of 4-5 automag valves that Tom Kaye made out of aluminium and then those got sold by mistake to some people and he later tried to find them. Did he ever manage to get any of them back?